To think driving 20 miles under the speed limit is really dangerous?

[Subtext]

There's a long stretch of B road near my parents' place where the speed limit is 60 mph.

I can't tell you how many times I've been stuck behind someone pootling along at 40mph. It happened again today and this time the person I was stuck behind was indicating right for the whole length of the two mile stretch. Ie shit driver.

It's so annoying. And apart from anything else it's really dangerous to drive too slowly. Really boils my piss.

AIBU to think if the speed limit is 60 you should more or less attempt to drive at 60?

YANBU. It is dangerous because it massively shortens stopping distances by causing bunching up and encouraging tail-gating. The tail-gating is obviously wrong but the effect is the same -the person doing 40 in a 60 smugly thinking he or she is being ultra safe is actually increasing the cahnces of there being an accident on a road where everyone else is anticipating driving at 50-60 mph - given normal road conditions of course.

It's dangerous because it puts your blood pressure up if you're the poor sod stuck behind one if these jokers

This really grinds my gears too. I was taught to drive at the speed limit (when safe to do so) and to get up to speed as quickly as possible after junctions etc.

It's dangerous to be so slow, and also because people then do crazy overtakes to get past.

But the worst offenders, as someone upthread mentioned, are those who hold me up doing 40mph on the b roads, then carry on doing 40mph when we are into built up areas and pull away.

Grrrrrr.

"All ignoring my comment then? How can it be dangerous to drive at 20mph below the speed limit ie 40mph in a 60mph when it is what HGVs are required to do by law?"

What a strange comment. Surely anyone can understand that speeds and driving behaviours that are safe in cars might not be safe in huge lorries, and vice versa?

If you don't understand how it's dangerous to travel significantly under the speed limit (assuming safe conditions etc) why not ask the DVLA who I presume designed the driving test in such a way that failure to make progress is a failing offence?

The reasons it is not safe for HGVs to travel 60 are different from the reasons it's not safe for a car to travel 40 on the same road.

Other road users reasonably expect cars to be doing at or near the speed limit, conditions permitting, while they expect big HGVs to be doing a much slower speed. A vehicle travelling at a significantly slower speed than you would anticipate with no discernible reason for doing do is a hazard. Yes obviously drivers should ensure they leave adequate braking distance, but even so, it's still an unnecessary hazard.

'You would be pulled over here (US) for driving at 20mph below the limit.'

But aren't limits lower in the US than the UK? I've lived in a lot of different countries, some with highly dangerous roads and bad drivers, but I find people drive very fast here in towns and on B roads.

Driving too slowly can cause accidents and in England you can be stopped for driving too slowly on public roads. DH's client received a fine and 3 points for doing just that.

forago as you admit, the tailgating is wrong. it's the attitude that i have the right to drive as fast as i like and i will sit up the arse of anyone who is driving slower that is dangerous. it's that that needs to be tackled, not the fact that some people drive more slowly than others

I absolutely agree that you should drive at the speed limit of 60 mph when it's safe to do so.

I don't agree at all that it's safe to drive at 60 mph on the type of road that the OP describes, where sweeping bends significantly limit visibility.

By going at 40 on a 60 road in good conditions where it's safe to drive at 60, you're forcing people to overtake and overtaking has some risk to it.

They must die. Particularly if they're in a Metro. Kill them twice.

It's actually very difficult to judge the speeds of vehicles in front of you. Which is why when there's bunching up/sudden slowing down on a motorway for whatever reason, drivers sometimes put their hazard lights on to warn the driver behind. You can't tell from brake lights how sharply the person in front of you is braking, and whether you can just push your brakes gently or need to slam them on.

Same applies on single carriageway roads with little traffic. If you're pootling along at 60 in very safe conditions, you could get really quite close before you realise that the driver in front is actually going very slowly. Even on high visibility, straight roads with no other hazard.

It depends on the road. The roads over the hills here are all national speed limit but they are winding bending roads with lots of dips and steep hills. In many places, if you drive at 60mph your car will be airborne for a split second not that DH does this to entertain the DC or anything .

Having my car fly is not something I aspire to so I stick to 40-50 depending on the particular stretch.

thedancingbear I didn't admit to anything gactually, I said that this is what happens on a road with a 60mph limit. The cars bunch up, many people will choose or be forced to tail gate and one persons choice of driving style will put lots of people including themselves at a greatly increased chance of collision, due to reduced stopping distances. Its basic physics. if everyone chooses to drive at or around the appropriate speed, taking road conditions into account, it is much safer for everyone.

If I am driving on an unfamiliar B road, then it would not be safe for me to travel at 60mph, 40mph would feel more comfortable.

However, when I notice a build up of traffic behind me (say 3 or 4 vehicles) who obviously feel they could drive a lot faster (maybe because they are more familiar with the twists and turn) I will try to pull in whenever possible and let them pass.

It takes 5 seconds.

no absolutes. The person too inattentive to notice that the indicator is still on is a shit driver. But check your own glass house first.

The speed limit is a maximum, not a target. The road between me and the nearest town has stretches of 60 limit. On many of those that is only relatively safe when it is quiet and dry. Often it is neither.

As my petrol isn't free or paid for by someone else, I will be off the accelerator to ensure that I will be going no more than 50 or 40 mph when I hit the stretches with those limits. This means (shock horror) that I will not be going at 60 in all the 60 bits.

this is a twisty two lane road. On a clear motorway it would obviously not be good to be driving at 50.

and NOTHING encourages tailgating except stupid tailgaters. As far as I am aware, no sheep has ever been given a driving licence.

forago your exact words are 'the tailgating is obviously wrong'.

yes and how is that admitting to anything? I didn't say I do it. I said that's what happens on a road where one person is driving much slower than the ambient speed.

As someone else has said the 60mph is a limit NOT a target. Most country roads have numerous bends, you cannot see what is round the corner- tractor, slow moving lorry, cyclist, horse or as I saw yesterday an old woman in a motorised scooter with a dog on a lead.

Ill carry on driving at a SAFE speed, suitable for that stretch of road, thank you very much and I wish with all my heart the driver who killed my DD's best friend had done the same.

forago nobody is 'forced' to tailgate. That is a choice. As many other posters have pointed out, most 60mph roads in this country are not 60mph but National Speed Limit. This means that you may drive at up to 60mph depending on road and weather conditions. It is impossible to tell whether YABU without looking at the road and the weather. However, the law says that if you run into the back of something it is your fault - you should drive so that you are in control of your car.

not a strange comment at all flowery. The point is you would still be stuck behind a vehicle doing 40mph and there is far more chance of getting past a car doing 40 than an articulated lorry.
The main A roads through my county are full of HGVs all doing 40mph with very little opportunity to overtake - so coming up behind a car doing 40 is no big deal. Some of you need to take a chill pill or set out a bit earlier to allow more time to get to your destination.
And no, I'm not one of those drivers - I have been driving safely for over 30 years and do so within the speed limit and the rules of the road.

forago I never accused you of tailgating personally.

ExcuseTypos Spot on and sorry to hear about your DD's friend. In the general run of things, it's people who drive too fast that kill people, not those who drive too slow. the reverse attitude is extraordinary.

Well I'm guessing most posters on here would find living in my town very frustrating: 20mph 24 hours a day all over town. Have you tried driving at 20mph at midnight when there's a clear road ahead of you? Frustrating doesn't come near it.

And there's a stretch of dual carriageway on the edge of town: 30mph. Now that is annoying.

But really, doing 60 on winding country roads when you can't see what's ahead is just stupid, whatever the speed limit.

YANBU this annoys the crap out of me! Even worse are the idiots who drive at 30, yes 30mph on 60 limit roads, which there are a lot of round here. If you can't drive at a reasonable speed you shouldn't be driving at all.

"AIBU to think if the speed limit is 60 you should more or less attempt to drive at 60?"
YABU - depends on the actual road and conditions.

"if someone's driving at the speed limit and they come up behind you doing 20mph faster than you, then depending on the conditions and visibility, they could slam right up the back of you. Or at least have to brake dangerously themselves."
YABU. Horses, farm vehicles, cars with a sudden mechanical problem, bikes, caravans - all reasons to imagine you might need to brake driving into circumstances you can't see. If you would need to do something dangerous to avoid any of these occurrences you are driving too fast.

"You can imagine it on a motorway; someone driving at 50 the whole way. Really stupid."
YABU. Plenty of lorries, cars towing horse trailers, veteran cars etc drive on motorways at 50 mph. Two overtaking lanes to allow for that.

I agree that needless slow driving is frustrating, and not ideal or to be recommended without a reason, but in all the circumstances you cite it is driving too fast or with an impatient attitude that is actually dangerous.

if the guy in front is doing 40 and the guy behind is up the next persons backside trying to do 60, somebody, somewhere is going to be tailgating.

you all need to actually read peoples posts - nobody is saying 60 is a target. and nobody is saying they should be allowed to drive as fast as they like. The OP asked whether driving at 20mph below the speed limit (and I think we all know its a limit not a target) in good conditions is safe. and I am saying that I dont believe it is. the same as driving massively over the limit isnt. because it makes that road more dangerous and likely to have a collision on it. do you think the white van men give a fuck about what MN say? are they going to slow down and not tailgate because MN has told them its naughty? of course not. Everyone driving at around the same speed, appropriate for the road and conditions is safer than one person going much faster, or much slower. If there are no collisions, nobody gets killed.

the automatic assumption that people are advoacting speeding or tailgating is typical of the people that do this - thinking they are being safer than everyone else when I don't think they are.

I always worry about people who drive really slowly, I worry some idiot will overtake them where it's not safe out of exasperation and cause an accident. I wonder if it's because their reactions are a bit too slow, modern roads are pretty dangerous places.