Re enunciating the 't's' in words?

[JimbosJetSet]

My accent isn't the best but I generally enunciate the t's at the end of my words. DH doesn't, never has done, and it's never bothered me before.

However, DD (3.5) is now dropping her t's, including the t at the end of her baby sister's name. It drives me crazy, I hate it, and I am constantly correcting her (and mostly being ignored).

DH thinks I'm being absolutely ridiculous to be constantly correcting her, and to get so wound up by it. AIBU and a snob? And if I try to let it go, is there any chance her enunciation will get better in time anyway (clutching at straws)?

Thanks!

You do also know that at 3.5 her speech hasn't finished developing? And that if she does find at a later date her accent is holding her back she can change it then?

I think correcting her accent at this age is pretty unkind and risks doing more harm than good and risks really damaging her self esteem which will do far more long term damage than pronouncing a sound 'wrong'

Interesting.

Insinuating that those who talk like this are, unlikely to work, be stupid, be laughed at, be common, be somehow less than their fellow man because they drop a 't' now and again?

It's been a while since I've seen such a distasteful thread tbh. It's regional discrimination. To discuss it linguistically is one thing. To associate it to stereotypes, here say etc in this way is revolting.

LRD sorry, I don't understand why my post was rude. Nor do I understand why my post was idealistic (unless that was sarcasm) or why I'd be judged on the way I write. Please explain?

mini - well, generally, 'terribly PC' isn't a compliment.

Claiming people judged others negatively for accent is a rude thing to say. It's extremely rude to say (without saying you think this is shitty discrimination, at least) that people will be judged for accents and therefore should 'pronounce' letters.

You obviously don't write correct standard English, which is absolutely normal and fine, and lord knows you shouldn't feel you have to, especially on a chat forum. My intention was to point out that, while it's generally accepted that picking people up for non-standard English writing is understood to be rude, some people, including you, perhaps don't realize that describing accents in the way you do is equally rude.

Oh, and sorry - the idealism, IMO, comes in when you assume that if the OP's DD learned to 'pronounce' her T's she'd be fine. Well ... but how should she pronounce them? There isn't one right way, and it's idealistic to assume there might be.

I'm from Portsmouth, it's natural for me to speak with glottal stops. However I hate it when people don't pronounce the "r" in a word, ie "buttaah" instead of "butterrrrr"

My family comes from East London. My accent is basically estuarial really, definitely not strong Cockney, but I do drop a fair few t's. I would pronounce the t in water, but not in buttons, for example.

I've never experienced any issues professionally or personally in terms of people judging me, or not to my knowledge anyway. Most people I know aren't that short-sighted tbh.

DH speaks very correctly, but what with my glottal stops and the fact that a large proportion of the population locally speaks that way, the DC also do it sometimes. Doesn't bother me in the slightest. They're both bright and I genuinely don't envisage it being a problem at all. If people who "talk proper" look down on them for their pronunciation of some words, that says way more about them than it does about the DC.

OP, if you model the way you'd like her to speak (not correcting), AND if the way you'd like her to speak is the prevailing accent/dialect around you, it'll come in time. If not, you'll need to learn to love her glo'al stops - you won't have much influence on her speech in the long run. Kids pick up the local manner of speech, not their parents', ultimately (I'm saying that as the mother of a child who at 10 is still very confused about her 'a' sounds).

People mispronouncing "th" as "f" I find annoying.
There was a travel announcer on a radio station I used to listen to who did this. Of all the jobs where you need to pronounce words properly one where you're telling people to avoid particular roads is a must

My (Glaswegian) mother (and the rest of the adults in my family's used to spend a lot of time insisting that us kids pronounced our 'ts, ds, and ings'.

Go for the educational angle....

If our DD isn't saying it properly she won't be able to write it correctly when she attends school

True story, the poor speakers, the lazy enunciation (rather than regional accent) has a marked effect on children's spellings, which impacts their learning.

I think it's important for children to be brought up able to express themselves with clarity when a situation requires it such as when giving a presentation or having a discussion with someone from a different area.

It may mean toning down an accent in these situations but you wouldn't expect to talk the same way you do to your mates to everyone you meet in every situation. There is nothing wrong with an accent (however strong), dialect and slang when with people who will understand them though.

nilby - could you give me the reference? I'm not being disbelieving, it's just 'lazy' is such a general word, I can't tell if this refers to children who have difficulties with phonics (who are, obviously, likely to struggle with speaking and writing), or whether there is some idea that children aged four or five are actually too idle to pronounce certain letters in particular ways.

Ah I see LRD. I thought you meant rude to the OP. I agree, I was being a bit rude about MN in general/the other replies. Apologies to anyone who was offended by being called PC.

I don't think it's rude to point out that some people will judge. It's a reflection of my experience and a fact of life - albeit an unpalatable one - that some people judge on factors they shouldn't. In any case I did say that the careers I mentioned were bastions of prejudice. So I did, in effect, say this is shitty discrimination.

I'm still not sure what's wrong or non-standard about my English?

odd - YY, I agree, I really wished someone had taught me Geordie when I was working up there.

Cross post.

No, I didn't mean rude to the OP in specific, mini.

As I said, of course, it's not rude to claim your personal experience is that people will judge, when you're also acknowledging it's abit shit (as you do). I completely see your point there.

I don't want to be rude about your English - do you want me to say or do you want a PM? I really only pointed it out because I had understood you to be judging others and I wanted to make the point that none of us should judge when none of us (I believe - and certainly I include myself in that!) is beyond reproach from some kinds of snobs.

My accent includes a glottal stop, DH tries to 'correct' it. I find this annoying now, and I remember finding my father annoying in my childhood. He wasn't on the glottal stop, he was on "fink" for think. As it happens, I don't say that anymore, but that had nothing to do with my father's carping. Let her be.

ldr sorry, lazy is a poor choice of word.

Children get speech modelled to them all the time, and picking up bad habits from that modelling has a detrimental effect on their education. Especially now with the push on phonics, the phonic check, SPaG.

when my DD2 was in reception and Y1 she had a Scottish teacher who pronounced phonics very differently to both Queen's English and the regional (yorkshire) accent.It caused no end of confusion

Still not sure if we are talking cross-purposes, nil.

Could you give me the reference?

It's just, it must be tricky not to include class discrimination, mustn't it?

I speak RP and sound 'posh'. People are quite willing to believe my accent is fine. But it requires a lot of careful adaptation if I want to learn to spell, because I say 'barth' for 'bath'. Someone with a non-RP accent will do much better with that spelling. Yet no-one has ever - that I have seen - suggested we teach children who speak RP to lose their bad habits of speech.

That said, if what you're talking about is children who've not been spoken to much, who are approximating their parents'/carers' accents and doing so badly, that to me seems very different. And I know the two can be confused, accent and a child who's simply missed out on a lot of communication. In that situation, IMO, it is the adult parent who is 'lazy'!

eat no, unsurprisingly somethings only effect some people some of the time.

I work with lots of children who muddle and cannot enunciate

th/f/v

s/z/th

omit "t, g,d,"

tion/sh

Some is to do with poor teaching and inability to consistently deliver the patterns and tools to learn the spellings. Some children have speech and language needs that require a different and additional approach. But poor enunciation is doing little children any favours and lots may go on to be fine spellers/writers in spite of that.

I cannot stand dropped 't's. It is a very lazy way of speaking and does not represent a person in a good light.

My mum brought us up to pronounce our words properly.

My dd does not drop her 't's. If she did, I would correct her.

The way in which we speak is important. I did not realise care until I was in my late teens. People are more likely to take you seriously if you are well spoken.

Is this a joke thread and I'm too slow to realize?

I think that if you have understood what the person has said to you, then don't be a dick about it.