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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to ask on here for the traffic?

72 replies

undetected · 07/06/2014 11:58

I need legal advice and fast!
I have nc.
I need advice please.

I am on bail after being arrested yesterday. The police have not made a decision as to whether to charge me or let me go with no further action.

My mobile phone has been confiscated by the police until I am required to return to the police station.

I have 1 disabled child and rely very heavily on my mobile phone. (It is my main source of contact, I need to be contactable at all times, it has everyone's numbers on it and my diary.)

How can they justify confiscating my phone for more than 6 weeks?
How do I get it back?
What are my rights?

CAB is not open in my area today (Closed 1st saturday of every month.)
I cannot find a solicitor on a Saturday.

I am going crazy not knowing what my rights are or how to proceed apart from to wait until Monday, but if anyone out there knows anything about criminal law, please advise me?

OP posts:
abbi74 · 07/06/2014 14:05

(iPhones, for example, have smaller SIMs)

SoonToBeSix · 07/06/2014 14:20

I am shocked you were even arrested op, I highly doubt you will be charged so you should get you phone back quickly.

paxtecum · 07/06/2014 14:35

You may have a very long wait for your phone.
A relative was arrested several times last year for harassment. The house was searched, computers and phones taken away and twelve months later not returned even though bail was not renewed through lack of evidence.

His XP was receiving abusive texts that she said must be from him. It was more likely that she had arranged for someone to send the to her so get could cause trouble for her XP.

undetected · 08/06/2014 17:58

Many thanks for all of your responses. I have calmed down somewhat now and have ordered a new sim card. I have also bought a phone. It is a cheap reliable phone and nothing like what I had, but it will suffice until I either get my phone back or until I can afford something more suitable.

OP posts:
undetected · 08/06/2014 17:59

I explained to the phone company what had happened, and was completely honest with them, and they have agreed to send me another sim card and waive the delivery charges, so that is one piece of good news.

OP posts:
PancakesAndMapleSyrup · 08/06/2014 19:22

Op the reason you were arrested was because the allegation against you is of a domestic nature. By this i mean ex partner, sibling, parent, child all must be over 18 for this to apply. Domestic incidents are one of the highest causes of murder, hence police forces now have a positive action policy where by one of the parties will be arrested and taken to the station IF an allegation is made, if not they would drop one party round at a friends house for example to split the couple up for a period of time, preventing a breach of the peace.
In regards to your phone, depends on what force you are with BUT it is unlikley that your phone would be sent off for phone downloads if the following applies6, some forces and by this i mean most have equipment on site to which the CURRENT content of the phone can be downloaded. This is quick and very easy. Obviously if things are deleted then the phone will be sent off and has a fairlylengthy turnaround.
Also current legislation has taken all domestic charging decisions out of the hands of the police, this must be agreed via the CPS, crown prosecution service which includes no further action. this can take a couple of hours.
You will get yourphone back, if not you can contact the force hq for a form regarding the loss.
I hope this helps.

undetected · 09/06/2014 12:06

Thank you Pancakes. That is very informative and helpful to me. I willingly gave the police my password to access my phone whilst I was held, so I can only hope this is cleared up sooner rather than later.

I'm not sure if I had previously deleted texts to and from xp and myself, since I was not aware I was going to be arrested and have my phone searched.

I have no issue at all with the police searching my phone or investigating my landline.

OP posts:
AgaPanthers · 09/06/2014 12:50

What kind of phone is it?

undetected · 09/06/2014 16:01

galaxy note 3, so not one I can afford to lose.

OP posts:
AreYouFeelingLucky · 09/06/2014 17:39

You'll get it back, but they'll need to recover all of the data from it, first.

They need both the phone and the operators records, because they are both evidence. Also because if they didn't get records from your actual phone, you could say that you didn't make the calls. Your phone was used +your number? Much stronger evidence.

Expect it to be a good few months, unless your force processes things especially quickly. it'll be less if there is no deleted content, and less if they drop charges. Expect a longer wait, though, and you won't be let down.

PancakesAndMapleSyrup · 10/06/2014 16:37

If you have never been a 'customer' before of the judicial process and this is your first time, the likley hood is that it will be a no further action or at worst a harassment warning letter, which is basically a letter saying dont do it. I reallythink you dont have anything to worry about. If you are in custody again i would advise taking the free legal advice, they can explain things further if need to to you and answer any questions which police officers are not allowed to do if they relate to the case they are investigating etc. They also get a copy of records etc so can ensure that you are dealt with fairly and in keeping with certain timeframes. HOWEVER i emphasise that it is only advice and not always the best advice but you can choose to take it or not. Most firms do not ever send a solicitor out (comes down to cost) but a legal representative or if your very lucky a trainee solicitor. If you have any other questions im happy to answer them if i can.

PancakesAndMapleSyrup · 10/06/2014 16:44

P.s. you MUST go back on your bail date so ensure you get a copy of your form. Unless they phone yoh to say its been cancelled. If you dont appear at the station on that date and time you commit a seperate offence for which you are likley to be arrested again. Tis a pain.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 10/06/2014 16:56

A Galaxy is an android phone? In which case all of your contacts etc are probably backed up and synced with google? I'm not sure what your budget is but you can get cheap sim free android phones on Amazon form unknown chines companies. This would at least allow you to get all your synced stuff back

undetected · 11/06/2014 10:22

Thank you for the advice. I have spoken to CAB over the phone yesterday afternoon and they have told me that I will need to return on the bail date, and to keep in touch with the police if I have any further questions.

They also told me that harassment is now seen to be much more serious than previously thought and as such, attracts a possible prison sentence of a maximum of 5 years.

I phoned the police yesterday afternoon, and the police officer I spoke to said they had informed xp that I was now on bail and were investigating my phone, and when I was due to return to the police.
I was also told that xp has explained to them that he feels under threat from me and fears what I will do to him. This adds considerable weight to his case.

It is all completely surreal to me. I was in a DV relationship with him, and he was the controlling bullying one. I have been punched whilst pregnant, had various pressure points squeezed to cause as much pain as possible whilst leaving no marks, he has stubbed out cigarettes on me, physically lifted me and moved me to where he wants me to be, throttled while sleeping, had my head rammed into a sofa. He has financially abused me, left me destitute, yet when the police have turned up, he is cool and calm and collected and I am a sobbing mess, because it is my life he was destroying and it was impossible to just sit back whilst he systematically destroyed everything I had, however, this only served to support his claims that I am crazy. The majority of the time, this cool approach works and he comes away looking like the victim and I am the nasty evil one.

He has been trying to gain residency of our child since I broke up with him years ago. I have a residency order for this purpose. He has made a barrage of allegations to SS to discredit me as a fit parent, all of which were found to be unsubstantiated.
He does not want our child permanently, he only wants to hurt me for daring to finish our relationship. Only a few weeks ago, he was asking me again if he could come back. The answer is always the same. No. It doesn't stop him trying. When he discovered I had begun seeing someone new, he went on another crusade to make my life difficult, because he refuses to acknowledge or see our child now, and it is our child who is suffering. I have tried to explain via text because he refused to answer his phone to me that our child is understandably upset at the lack of contact and possibly this is what he is construing as harassment?? I have also asked in the last month again via text because he refuses to answer my calls if he would be able to pay towards some new things our child needs. I received no reply.

Now I face going to prison because he is motivated by his desire to destroy me, hence wanting to remove our child from my care and because I didn't expect him to use requests concerning our child against me in this way.

He will win in the end and have our child removed from me, because he always gets what he wants in the end. He reads people very well and acts accordingly.

I am doomed!! My child is picking up on this anxiety now and we are not even half way through June, and now my child is having to be physically peeled away from me in hysterics every day to get in the door to school because of overhearing a couple of people sharing their concern with me for what has happened. Bad judgement from all concerned but most of all, another example of how I have upset my child.
I don't know how I can live in limbo like this for over a month more when I know it could easily be the last month I spend with my child for a long time.

By the way, the legal definition of harassment according to CAB is the sending of any type of text message, sext, photo message, video message, or voice mail from a mobile phone that causes the receiver to feel harassed, threatened, tormented, humiliated, embarrassed or otherwise victimized.

"How do you legislate how a person should feel?" That was the question CAB left me to think about when I said that millions of texts or calls must come under harassment then.

OP posts:
tellmeastory · 11/06/2014 10:35

I hope your ex's previous complaints to SS will be his undoing. I think you're in a really difficult situation and feel for you, but I have no advice unfortunately. I'll be thinking of you and hope everything is ok in the end.

undetected · 11/06/2014 11:50

Thank you for your post tellmeastory.
Until this happened, I would never have imagined that texting an xp about your child could lead to a possible prison sentence.
I have now contacted a solicitor who will be helping me to sort this out and will definitely keep you all updated as a way of thanking you all for putting in the time and effort to advise me and offer me support at this horrendous time in my life.
Thank you. Flowers

OP posts:
PancakesAndMapleSyrup · 11/06/2014 16:45

Please please please, get it out of your head that you will end up in prison, this really is not the case unless you consistently break court rules, court bail etc. It really wont happen. I do hope that you have told the police everything that you have told us here. If not i would urge you to do so. Your child needs you stay strong and stable in frame of mind, you know he is a bully and if he is playing these games then when to avoid. Do not under any circumstances contact him, tbh it sound like you would both be better off if contact ceased anyway. Has any previous dv been reported before to police? This is important, as his feelings add considerable weight?...not if it hasnt been reported before it dosent AND there are no witnesses unless fabricated. Please read www.cps.gov.uk/s_to_u/stalking_and_harassment/
Im pleased you now have a solicitor as charging guidelines are slightly different to the legislation offences. Pm me if you need.
The CAB have their wording wildly wrong.

undetected · 11/06/2014 23:30

Thanks Pancakes.

All I know is that I have never been accused of harassment before and the last time I was arrested was more than 25 years ago.
When the police interviewed me, they asked me about specific texts which had been sent which I agreed I had sent. Those were the texts I mentioned earlier.
The policeman then asked me if I had sent any other texts. I could not see my phone by then, and I know it may sound strange, but without seeing my phone, I honestly couldn't be sure if I had sent any other texts unless I saw them, so I told the policeman that I didn't recall sending any other texts.
I have little idea of what they are going to find. I feel rather violated that they are looking through my phone although I understand why they are doing it, but there is so much more on my phone than a few texts or call logs.
I know the police have probably seen it all before but somehow that doesn't comfort me. Those are my pictures, my videos, my child's first steps, my friends texts, my apps, my mumsnet, my diary, my contacts, my thoughts, my notes, my internet history, my searches, my emails.
So much more than is ever put on my calender at home.
The thought that the police are able to browse through my life at will makes me feel judged and horrible, like they could quite accurately build up a picture of me and my life just through my phone.

I am loathe to tell the police when I manage to get another phone.

The police have told me that I can contact xp if it is regarding childcare, but I have decided not to contact xp at all, unless it is a life or death situation, at which point, I will re evaluate the situation at that time. I no longer trust how he would react and a simple allegation with no evidence has got me here in the first place.

My solicitor agrees with me.

It is hanging over me and will continue to do so until I know the outcome of the investigation and what decision they will make.

Previously, xp and I have argued via text and he has never made allegations of harassment. I wonder if the police will take those arguments into account when making their decision.

One thing is certain, I will never trust xp again.

OP posts:
sashh · 12/06/2014 06:01

You need a solicitor.

You should have asked for one at the police station. When you return to answer bail if they want to question you again ask them to call the duty solicitor, it may mean you sitting in a cell for a couple of hours but it will be worth it.

Or you can contact a criminal solicitor and ask them to meet you at the police station. Advice in custody is free and when you return you will be considered in custody.

You have a right to make a counter claim against yoru ex, but the police will not tell you that.

undetected · 12/06/2014 08:03

Thank you sashh. I have got a solicitor now. The only reason I declined a solicitor when I was arrested and kept down the station was because I have no one to pick up my child from school except myself so I didn't want to be delayed any further than necessary.

If they want to question me further on return, I will most definitely be requesting a solicitor.

Am I considered in custody when at the station until they either charge me, caution me, or NFA the case?
I didn't know if they'd have to re arrest me for me to be considered to be in custody again?

Thank you for the advice concerning the counter claim. I was not aware of that. I don't feel harassed by xp at present, but it is good to know all of my rights. I appreciate your advice.

OP posts:
PancakesAndMapleSyrup · 12/06/2014 20:10

You basically have 24 hrs in custody before the police have to charge or release you, that is the maximum. Think of it as a stop watch. For example, you are arrested at 3pm taken to the station but there is a 40 min wait, you dont actually enter custody until 3.50pm, your clock starts at 3.50pm. You then stay are interviewed but nkt released until 8.50pm, so 5 hours of your time have been used up. If you answer bail and go back into custody your stop watch starts again. And so it goes on. They can ask for extensions up to 12 hours, after which they must apply to a court for permission to keep you, these sorts of things are generally for serious gbh, murder etc where harm may come to others if not enough evidence as yet to charge. So when you arrive at the station you are not in custody until you enter the custody suite and are booked in again.
The legal rep system at police stations used to be paid per hr, noe they are paid a set fee no matter how long they are there fore. A huge number advise a no comment interview, this is not always the best advise that i willwarn you of but somethimes it is generally good advise.
Try not to worry about the content of your phone, not easy but there is no point in feeling awfuk about it because it is out of your hands, and if it proves that your ex is still being a complete twat it looks good for you because he is being awkward and you can show that by the malicious allegations he has made etc in the future.

FreeWee · 21/06/2014 22:09

How have thing been undetected? I've been thinking about your situation. Flowers

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