to wish tax payers money was not paid to promote cows milk and dairy

[brt100]

Cards on table, I don't drink dairy as I'm health conscious, its for another animal with a very different body structure, diet and only for infants.

I get it that its delicious, well cheese is, but what I don't like is all these adverts on buses paid for partly by tax payers money to encourage people to drink milk. There are much better sources of calcium that the body can absob better so that argument is a con.

My sister gives her 7 yo a chease string every lunch time and thinks its healthy and vital.

I am absolutely disgusted that there are people in this thread saying that milking cows is not cruel!?! Unless I am missing something, and there are people here who can communicate effectively with cows, then how on earth can you know if it is painful or not?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say its no more painful than using an electric breastpump. Same principle, same purpose - milk extraction. I don't writhe around the floor in pain using my pump. Plus cows are big, fuck off huge things. I'm guessing if they really objected to being milked that they could put a pretty good fight, I bet a kick from a cow hurts.

I am a vegan , but frankly I love these threads- the comments from both sides are often comedy gold . It takes me back to sixth form and the debating society - twenty years later its the same crappy arguments .
Eat milk if you want , is it as bad as the cruelty to animals when the forests are destroyed to plant soya I wonder? All food has a history and most of its dodgy .Sooner or later all our diets will change drastically , we can't sustain the population without embracing major change .

Milk is a fantastic food. One of life's true miracles.

Cheese strings, on the other hand are nasty processed junk.

The fact you have chosen to lump these two together really undermines any argument you might make.

Walton, avoiding dairy does not automatically mean you support soya!

Also tax payers money is not used to promote soya.

brt are you worried about your niece? Have you explained to your sister your worries about her diet?
Apart from the cheese strings what is her diet like?

I don't like milk but love cheeses, yog and a hit chocolate with marsh mellows in on a cold evening etc. recently I've had to recommend patients drinking more milk. One lady reported back that her hair and nails are amazing now and she had more energy. (I'm not a doctor and it was for something else) Yabu

The trouble with soya is that it's not sustainable at it's current level of demand and that's because it's wasted being fed to cows. Cut out the middle man (or cow) and it would be sustainable.

I heard soya has a negative effect on hormones, I would never drink it or let my DD have it for this reason. I also agree with tyaca about not lumping cheese strings in with the rest of dairy foods - they need fat and calcium and all the loveliness that milk brings when they are young, it's much, much better, than, say, a can of coke.

Cheese strings are just cheese though. Heaven knows what they do to them to give them the texture of plastic but, IIRC, there's nothing but cheese in them.

Just out of interest ... a question for any of you dairy product-avoiding folk who think milking cows is cruel ... presumably because it's forcing them to do what they otherwise wouldn't do naturally ....

Do you have pets? Your dog, in it's natural habitat would be roaming around with other dogs terrorising the countryside / towns, flee-ridden, diseased and mangy, probably half-starved, fighting other dogs sometimes to the death.

Your cat likewise.

Your fish would probably get eaten quite quickly by a bigger fish.

Etc.

Yes we put animals outside of their natural environments to an extent, but on the whole our farm animals and pets have comfortable and happy lives.

they need fat and calcium and all the loveliness that milk brings when they are young

Milk isn't the only source of fat, and anyone that believes its a good source of calcium has fallen for marketing.

The only thing that needs cows milk is calves.

And formula fed infants.

Yanbu. I try not to eat dairy where I can help it as I don't think it's good for health and I think it's wrong to take another mammals milk purely for my pleasure (I would rather it was used ff though, as obviously there is no alternative there, unless they start harvesting breastmilk...)

When dc were babies they were intolerant of dairy and had reflux until I cut it out of my diet, so my bf was cows milk free, according to the gp cows milk is not a natural product for humans and that's why so many are intolerant of it.

Typical - I can't speak for other people, but personally I'd have nothing against drinking milk if I knew the cow was free to graze, not pumped full of hormones and steroids, and not repeatedly impregnated, having their calves taken away at birth. The last part is what upsets me the most.

I've found one farm that fits that criteria, that I would buy cows milk from, as they are rescued cows, but it's not convenient for me to buy it, (living in london makes that difficult) so I abstain completely.

Benchmark, cows in the UK are not pumped full of hormones and steroids. The EU banned them years ago. It's always very disappointing to read someone who has fallen for the vegetarian hype about the treatment of dairy cows in the UK.

Benchmark

milk cows are all free to graze, except in winter when they are housed inside for their welfare and fed on silage.

The are not pumped full of hormones and steroids in the UK. Anything that you are read that say they are is probably speaking about America.

Their calves are not taken away at birth. What would be the point, the calves wouldn't thrive as they wouldn't get the colostrum, and you don't want colostrum in with the rest of the milk so they wouldn't be milked anyway.

Funnily enough it is in the farmer's interests to keep their animals as healthy and as happy as possible. I don't know why you have seem to have got the idea they are all evil?

As for 'rescue cows' - what the actual fuck!?

Benchmark
Speaking as someone involved in (organic) dairying:

Our cows are free to graze about 22 hours a day, just wandering in for milking morning and evening.

Our cows are definitely not given steroids. They occasionally have fertility hormone treatments - not growth hormone treatment ever.

Yes they are repeatedly impregnated. But then again that would happen in the wild too.

Yes their calves are taken away shortly after birth (about 3 days). Some of them don't mind at all because they're not maternal types, others holler for a while and then wander off for a while to graze, or munch on silage if it's winter.

Agree with posters above - so much misinformation about dairying in the UK.

I haven't fallen for any hype, I'm not saying ALL farmers in the UK do those things, I wast even talking about the UK. I was answering a posters question about why people are happy to keep pets but not drink milk.
I do actually know a fair bit about this seeing as my uncle and cousins all actually live in a farm. It's in their interest to keep be animals healthy and happy whilst maximising profit, hence removal of calves and regular impregnation.

Don't understand what's so funny about rescue animals but hey we obviously have a different sense of humour.

Some of them don't mind at all because they're not maternal types, others holler for a while and then wander off for a while to graze, or munch on silage if it's winter.

You can talk to cows?

The biggest and most damaging myth is that milk and dairy is a healthy product that is vital for life.
www.whitelies.org.uk/dairy-industry-cow-welfare

Then you get people giving cheese strings that are a mixture of god knows what as a healthy product.

I have already asked you this brt100 but have you spoken to your sister about your niece's diet and told her your concerns?

And typical - what happens to the male calves then? Do they graze freely for the rest of their natural lives?

Glad you agree about them being taken soon after birth, seeing as I've repeatedly been told by another supposed expert that that isn't true. There is nothing natural or fair about that in my opinion.

Sparklingbrook this isn't about any particular people, its about tax payers money going to promote a product as healthy when it is anything but.

But you mentioned you niece and the Cheese Strings brt100. Sorry I don't get why you mentioned them in that case.

If you sister thinks they are healthy and vital I guessed you would be trying to tell her otherwise as you are telling us on this thread?

OP, if a cow has a calf, leaves it and wanders off, then a few hours later walks past it as if it were background wallpaper, making no attempt to feed or mother it, I think it's safe to assume it's not a maternal type!!

Benchmark - our male calves are grown to be rose veal. So they are kept with the female calves but are slaughtered at almost a year old. These days very few bull calves are killed at birth because the price of beef is so strong, it's economically viable to keep them either to grow as rose veal, or even beef. They are out at grass if it's summer or kept in the shed on beds of straw and a diet of silage and oats in winter.

Yes the calves are taken soon after birth, but they regard me as a very satisfactory foster-mother judging by the enthusiasm of their welcome morning and evening!