AIBU to have concerns about returning to UK

[madchocolatemum48]

We are in the process of moving back to the Uk. Dh's job mainly, but I would like the kids to 'know their roots' too.
The more I read about the UK at the moment I am beginning to wonder if it is really such a good idea after all.
We have a nice house in a quiet village. Kids are at a good school. Life is a little hum-drum but nothing major to complain about.
I'm concerned about schools, areas to move too, crime, politics. Practically everything really.
Is it as bad as the newspapers make out????

If any of your DC have SN of any kind then I would stay where you are.

The UK is disgusting at the moment with the way the elderly and those with sn/disabiliteis are treated.

We just moan a lot! When you actually go somewhere else we are often a lot better.

I agree with Albie, and live in a similar situation, but I think if I had settled in Scandinavia I'd be even happier!
On balance I'd rather have teenagers settled in a community in Scandinavia than here. There are incredible opportunities of every type, good and bad!

Good and bad opportunities in London I mean.

How old are your children, op? Will you need nursery? School?
How good is their English?

My 12 year old, who is a bright boy, struggles somewhat with English and the humanities in secondary, 3 years in Norway was enough to disrupt his language development. It also changed him. He had problems settling in school in Norway, the children played in a different way than he was used to. Then he got used to it "roughened up" for the more independent games the children engaged in, came back to London, and struggled again. His Norwegian bluntness has made him no favours and he struggles not to be seen as rude and abrupt, despite using all the pleasantries required. It is like fitting a square into a round hole, and he feels very out of place. He went from Norwegian 3. klasse, to a UK Y5. They were MILES ahead so he had a lot to catch up on.

My 9 year old has had an easier time of it, he wast 3 when we went to Norway and 6 when we returned.

In used to live in London, this is what I miss:
Great people
Style
Cheap restaurants
Beautiful shop displays
Pub culture
How people are friendly and willing to make friends quickly (takes a lot longer here)
Accessibility to Europe
String currency
Cheap clothes
Police that actually come around when you've been mugged
Great running tracks / parks

What I don't miss:
Crowds
Weather
The daycare prices
House prices/ rent prices
Commuting

Aft scotlands fine, London seems to be the one everyone considers the UK - cant buy a house, cant drive a car, cant get decent public transport, cant get decent schools or schoolplaces etc.

"How people are friendly and willing to make friends quickly (takes a lot longer here)"

I think perceptions vary greatly.

My husband (Not English) has ONE good friend here in London. He is actually our only British friend. I have made a couple of friends in my 20 years here, none of them English. It is not for lack of trying!

We both have plenty of friends in Norway, and we made many new friends in the 3 years there. Even my husband is surprised that he has more friends from three years in Norway, then from his 20 years in the UK.

As a foreigner in Britain (at least in our experience), making friends is not easy.

I'm concerned about moving the kids school wise. They are pretty fluent in both languages. They spent a few years at the local school before we moved them to the International School where they are taught in English. I'm hoping by the time we move they will be up to speed. I actually thought initially that it was better they started school later (7) but in reality my kids were champing at the bit to start learning. I have been self-homeschooling them in English for years here.
I know what you mean about the different culture QS The kids are always embarrassed when I insist they say please and thank-you I always get " Muuuum, we don't have to here"
I was thinking of keeping them in the International school system if we moved back to the UK, but the fees are shocking.
We are the opposite here friend wise. I can honestly say it has been the hardest part of living here. Making friends. I know people, but friends, no.

Aft scotlands fine, London seems to be the one everyone considers the UK - cant buy a house, cant drive a car, cant get decent public transport, cant get decent schools or schoolplaces etc

It's not just London - I lived in north-west England and couldn't afford a house or get my kids into a decent school, and my husband's 7 mile commute took 45 minutes.

If I was moving back I'd look at Scotland and maybe NE England...

OP - my (ignorant) perception is that Scandinavia is a great place to bring up DCs....

I live in Scotland and love it. The weather is a bugger though - if you come, it's better further east.

I love Scotland for its scenery, wilderness, right to roam, peoples' sense of humour, the lack of problems it faces in terms of other parts of the UK. I agree with whoever said up thread that most of us admire the Polish.

But as I see Scandinavia as a kind of scotland with even better scenery and wilderness and fewer social problems it seems like the better option! Am I hopelessly ignorant?

But as I see Scandinavia as a kind of scotland with even better scenery and wilderness and fewer social problems it seems like the better option!

Unfortunately oohdaddypig you are hopelessly ignorant...
We thought exactly the same before moving here though.

There are a lot of positive things here. It's like a very well run machine. Everyone knows what to do and when to do it. It's safe and sensible. Everyone follows the rules. They are (IMO) a little obsessed with equality. They talk in quiet voices to each other and their children. They don't make eye contact or do chit chat about the weather.

It also has racism, xenophobia, immigrant issues etc. So it's not all Stepfordy

I miss the diversity of the UK.

I think it depends where you live. We live in a lovely quiet village in Yorkshire. Beautiful scenery and I couldn't imagine living anywhere else. Don't believe everything you read!

I do get annoyed with people slating the UK - I'm very proud to be British and if you're not happy, there's a whole wide world out there!

The rain and mild but not hot weather doesn't bother me, in fact I like it. I have found going to very cold countries or very hot countries tiresome, if you live in a cold country you have to spend time shoveling snow, dressing up/taking clothes off, having difficulty traveling and if you live in a hot country and have to work (as opposed to lie on a beach towel) it's not much fun either. The UK climate is such that the weather is no big deal most of the time (unless you live in a flood prone area of course- but I suggest you take that into account when deciding where to go, seriously).

As for the rest of it, surely it depends where you live and how much money you have. I wouldn't move just for a country, I would move for an interesting job, to feel at home, to go on an adventure, to be near family. I also agree with Quint that children adjusting culturally and linguistically can be hard if they don't 'fit' in the culture they have come from or to- I know a couple of families who have issues with this, either the education was disrupted at a key time, or the children don't feel they belong in either place. I think younger children who throw themselves into learning the local language tend to do better than teens.

Friendliness-wise, I think it can take a long time to make good friends in the UK, I notice now that most of my friends come from families who have emigrated- my children are half another culture and so we seem to be drawn to similar families as people seem more open/willing to make friends. I have old friends in the UK but sometimes people seem a little wrapped up in their own lives and not that friendly- lots of my husband's friends feel the same and a bit isolated if it weren't for their expat community.

Interesting that us Yorkshire dwellers are happy with our lot

I've lived in several different countries, due to work, and my very personal impressions were that I was happiest in Southern Germany and Belgium (nr the Dutch border). They seemed to me as if they offered the best mixture for families too. Also found paying into insurance scheme for private healthcare far better service than the NHS and actually cheaper because of usually paying to go private in the UK anyway.

Haven't lived in Denmark, I get the impression its a bit insular to outsiders, enormous taxes, education system exists to create equality and not outstanding people. I'm surprised its not gone bust because its national debt is massive and its business infrastructure poor. Norway is actually quite right wing and frighteningly expensive but encourages outdoors activities very well. There is a high level of people on disability benefits and who do not work out of the working population in Norway, but they have a massive oil fund to support it. But even if you earn a fortune there you will still have to scrimp and save to lead a very average standard of living. Scotland I found less friendly than London (especially outwith the central belt), a bit insular and rather controlling of your own life a bit too much and teaching kids to be wimps that can't think for themselves. But many very nice people.

I hated Italy.

Nearly everywhere I felt you got more for your tax in terms of facilities than benefitted everyone, e.g. basic infrastructure, good roads, facilities, etc.. In much of Northern Europe, you are looked down upon if you boast too much about how much you have/how rich you are, and you make friends by joining clubs and societies. e.g. DH joined a folk singing choir which was actually more of an excuse for lots of people to go for weekends away and have a bit of a party, but in a very family-oriented or innocent way.

QuintessentiallyQS as a foreigner I found it easy to make friends in London especially when a new mum (obviously just my experience though!). I just had to go to a coffee shop to meet mums. I met a mum in the coffee shop and the following week I was at a party at her house, meeting more people. also met another lovely mum in the doctors office. it's taken me about 2 years here is make a handful of friends, not through lack of trying, it's just that more people have their close families around so are not as desperate as me for entertainment :) in my experience I found people in London very social and kind. (Always had offers to help with my pushchair)

We live in a very nice Yorkshire village too, Coast 40 mins, moors 40 mins cities 30 mins, very friendly no problems really with crime, everyone gets first choice school it's just a formality to fill in the forms, never had a problem with the nhs, personally I think Yorkshire is a great place to raise a family.

Downsides the roads are shocking with pot holes and too busy,

I really do think its down to which part of the UK you are looking to move to, the majority of the problems with school places, housing etc seems to be in the South East.

Ah Yorkshire. God's own county - North, West, East or South, you can't go wrong.

I'm moving back to the UK soon and am looking forward to my daughter enjoying school more (I think it's too rigid here in sixth form in France). I am not looking forward to being seen as rude - I have forgotten how to queue up properly! I'm wondering how the administration will be, I've heard I might have to take my driving test again - and that 'they' might have no record of me and my national insurance history... however when I was back recently on an LSD trip (Look-See-Decide) recently I fell ill and got prompt and good treatment on the NHS and they found my records from 25 years ago... so on the whole, looking forward to it... and my son is looking forward to joining the cubs... so Madchocolate, even if it's different to how you remember it, I'm sure you will enjoy it.

well i've lived in london for 15 years now and there are a couple of things i can't give up:

• culture: the concerts, plays, art exhibitions are truly inspirational. i couldn't live without this.

• the diversity and tolerance of different cultures. there is an open-mindedness that is so rare and precious, that having found it and not had it before, has become incredibly important to me. whatever floats your boat, you'll find likeminded people in london. and people won't judge. much.

so as much as i hate all the rest, the two things above obliterate any negative feelings i might have!

"culture: the concerts, plays, art exhibitions are truly inspirational. i couldn't live without this"

Sigh.

Guess what we have culture outside London as well - Opera North, Northern Ballet, theatres, art galleries, national museums, stately homes, National Parks, beautiful coastline etc. This argument irritates me intensely because Londoners think provincials don't have access to any form of culture.

National museums outside London: The National Railway Museum, the Royal Armouries, the Media Museum, Museum of Science and Industry, The Tate, the National Coal Mining Museum.

There is plenty of diversity outside of London as well.

London is not the be all and end all of living in the UK. And dare I say it (and I am a south Londoner who escaped to Yorkshire) that many Londoners and persons from the home counties are more xenophobic than people who don't live in London because they think that life outside London is for people who wear flat caps and keep pigeons have no access to any form of culture.

And how many of us with children actually manage to go to concerts/ballet/opera/theatre that frequently?

ummm i didn't say there wasn't any culture anywhere else!

i'm just saying that that's what i love about where i live...

I live half way between two major cities in Yorkshire and can travel to art and culture in a much shorter time than when I lived in South London.

I think the UK in general does culture well.

Great theatre cities like Glasgow.