MY previous landlord wants to detuct £40 from my deposit because there was dust on the skirting boards.

[TurtleyAmazing]

I have just recieved an email from my property manager regarding my deposit for the flat we moved out of a few months ago. now i was expecting SOME deductions of my deposit as i did scuff and mark the walls a little, not a lot just everyday wear and tear sort of thing.

I can't say i was expecting her to deduct a total of £210 though!

this is the email i recieved...

vacuum all carpets £40
skirtings were dusty £40
oven and extractor fan to be cleaned £60
clean the grout in the shower £40
scuffs on walls £10
small dent to the kitchen door £20

now, i have many issues with this. i used to hoover or sweep my carpet every single day without fail. it was a horrible carpet which just collected dust and grit and i couldnt stand the feeling of walking on it barefoot without giving it a good vacuum first. the very last thing i did before walking out of the door the final time was vacuum the whole flat. so i can say with 100% certainty that this is total BS.

£40 for some dust on a skirting board is fucking disgusting! how anyone can justify that i don't know!! it doesn't need painting just simply dusting.

I have never ever used the oven extractor. i opened it when i first moved in saw the dirty grimmy muck behind it and never opened it again. as for the oven itself when we moved in the glass door was so caked in shit you couldn't see into the oven through it. i scrubbed and scrubbed that thing for hours until the glass became clear so if anything the oven is in a better state now than it was when we moved in.

grout in the shower £40 the flat had a bad mould issue, the shower cubicle was damp and mouldy when we moved in the grout was possibly a bit worse when we left so i sort of understand that deduction although that was not our fault.

scuffs and dent to the door £30 yes, i scuffed the wall and supposedly dented the door thats fine i will glady pay the money for that.

she has also sent me the inventory for the flat with pictures of all the damage we had supposedly done. we didn't recieve one at the beggining of our tenancy though so she is swearing blind that all these problems were caused by us yet they truly was there when we moved in, we just have no way of proving it.

if you have made it this far thankyou
what would you do in this situation?

Agree with others.

It isn't unusual to have a contract stating that e.g. the house (including oven) must be professionally cleaned at end of tenancy. However, when you sign this kind of contract you always sign an inventory (usually put together by a third party, not the landlord themselves) at the beginning of the tenancy.

Can't see how a photograph of a dusty skirting board months after you left would prove anything one way or the other.

Op, don't worry. Whether your deposit is in the scheme or not, your LL is in the wrong. If it is in the scheme you can use their dispute service. If it is not then LL is in deep do-do.

Honestly, there is no need to panic.

www.gov.uk/tenancy-deposit-protection/if-your-landlord-doesnt-protect-your-deposit

Tenancy terms requiring professional cleaning are usually unenforceable

www.thedisputeservice.co.uk/independent_landlords/resources/files/Our approach to unfair contract terms.pdf

"The wording of cleaning clauses in tenancy agreements will vary widely, but arguably the most common expectation we will see is that the tenant must leave the property cleaned to a professional standard. Many agents and landlords regard this as an ‘absolute’ obligation – i.e. the property must be left in that condition in any event, and that the tenant is responsible for the cost of cleaning to that standard if they fail to do this themselves.
The approach that TDS will take is generally to start from the presumption that the tenant can only normally be required the leave the property in the condition in which they found it (allowing for wear and tear, where relevant and appropriate). This is because it is a general legal principle that when claiming for a breach of contract, the landlord is entitled to be put in the position they ought to have been in at the end of the tenancy as if the breach of contract had not occurred – i.e. the property is in the same state of cleanliness as it started out. Where it isn’t, the adjudicator will look to make an award for the cost of bringing the property back up to that standard. This will not therefore be for the cost of a full professional clean at tenancy end, if the property was not also shown to be professionally clean at the start of the tenancy.
Typically therefore, even though a tenancy agreement might demand a full professional clean at tenancy end, the adjudicator will not make an award which would put the landlord in a better position at the end of the tenancy than at the start. Examples of situations where no/a reduced award for the cost of cleaning will be made include the following:
a check in report which:
? makes no reference to the cleanliness of the property at the start of the tenancy for example “the check in report does not refer to cleanliness and there is no general disclaimer to the effect that items were in good clean condition unless otherwise stated”;
does not specify that the property was professionally clean at the start of the tenancy (e.g. “cleaned to a good standard”, “generally clean” “clean but with some oversights”)
? suggests that the property had not been cleaned for the start of the tenancy, for example “the check in report/inventory states that items are in good condition unless otherwise stated.” However, TDS regards such statements as indicative of general condition, rather than cleanliness.
a check out report which:
? indicates that the property was generally clean, with some oversights, at the end of the tenancy, but not that a full professional clean was needed;
? made no reference to any defects with cleaning at the end of the tenancy;
? reported that the property had been cleaned to at least the same standard as at the start of the tenancy.
In summary, the adjudicator will not make a full award for the cost of professional cleaning if (s)he concludes from the evidence presented that:
the deterioration in the property’s cleanliness only required cleaning in certain specific areas rather than a complete clean throughout;
the property was in a similar condition to check in and it would be unreasonable for the tenant to meet the cost of further cleaning;
the evidence does not suggest that the property was less clean at the end of the tenancy than the beginning;
there is uncertainty about the property’s cleanliness at either the start or end of the tenancy."

We had this too! Agency tried to claim full deposit (figure went up everytime I disagreed). Some I would have agreed to. We had not tended the garden and were prepared to pay for that. But then they started claiming for stupid stuff like £800 for the cheap kitchen lino that was damaged when we moved in and 400 for the bath that was also damaged when we moved in.

I spent days and week's putting together our defense for the deposit protection scheme.

In the end (6 months later), it boiled down to the simple fact that there was no signed check in report or inventory. We were refunded the full deposit.

They bank on people not being able to wait!

As a landlord I would expect to either roll my sleeves up and scrub a house between tenants myself or pay a professional company to do it for me.

This ^^. Of course there is going to be some wear and tear.

OP are those photos dated they could have been taken after the previous tenants moved out. If there is a 'middle man' or agent it may not even be the LL who is trying to chisel money out of you.

Sounds like a LOT of landlords I have encountered unfortunately. In my last place I thought I was going to be immune to such practices due to being in the deposit protection scheme. However as I discovered there is a loophole - the landlord logs into the online system, says they won't refund all of the deposit. Then tenant logs in, disputes it. I thought at this stage the deposit protection people step in to referee but no; they back out and the tenant and landlord must go to court. I decided it wasn't worth it for £30 as was the amount disputed in my case.

Citizens advice bureau are good for general advice on your rights with all sorts of things so try talking to them. If I were you I'd threaten environmental health. I did this once - arranged a meeting at the letting agency and went armed with the forms already filled in, which made them back down.

I really feel for you as this sort of dodgy practice is rife in the rental sector and they get away with all sorts of illegal practices. It sounds like you've been very sensible, not to mention good tenants, so don't beat yourself up about it and weigh up the emotional energy of the fight against the money. From my experiences I insist on documenting everything photographically but it's always so hard to win against someone who is well practiced at this foul play.

You have all motivated me, i won't be backing down now. LL is in the wrong so either i get my deposit back in full or i will be seeing them in court.

and to LL who have posted on here please please please give a crash course to LL in the bristol area

Turtley, I am a LL too. I suggest you first email your ex LL and ask them to give you the details of the Deposit Protection Scheme your deposit is in.
I suspect they never put your deposit in any of those schemes as you would have known about it because the DPS would have sent you an automatic email saying your LL has put your deposit here and this is a reference number for your deposit. (I personally always forward my confirmation from DPS to my tenant so to make sure they know where to go if they think I am being unfair).

All LLs are obliged to do this, this has been the case since 2008 I believe, to put all deposits in a scheme like this within I think 3 weeks of taking the deposit.
If your LL confirms that the deposit is not in a scheme, I suggest you google this and email them the bit which says they can be fined up to 3x worth of the deposit if the money is not in the scheme, and see what happens.
If they did put it in the scheme then what you do is request your deposit back directly with the organisation, they will email your LL asking if they are happy for all the money to go back to you and if not then you start the process whereby the DPS will kind of mediate and decide what should happen.
FWIW I am yet to keep even a penny from any of my tenants, as you must always assume some wear and tear would happen and of course I assume that I would have to pay for cleaning in between tenants. £40 for dusting skirting boards is micktake big time, you must dispute it. Good luck.

Remember that they're not allowed to deduct for fair wear and tear, which I would say a scuff to the wall would be. Ditto discoloured grout.

andagain someone upthread said i would get a letter from the deposite scheme and wasn't sure if we had recieved on and DP just didn't show it to me. but i am 100% sure we haven't recieved any sort of email, automatic or otherwise.

it looks like LL has some explaining to do.

cuntybollocks i would of thought so too. you don't paint a wall white and expect zero marks after a year and a half.

ahhhh buntycollocks

i like what you have done there

Definitely dispute it. Our LL tried to claim around £500 for carpet that was hideous, dirty and old when we moved in and we lived there twelve years! He didn't win.

If they put the deposit in a scheme they will give you details as it is for their benefit too. If not you then report them and they are liable for 3x as much for not fulfilling their legal obligation. Just email them and ask them for the name of the scheme and word it something like" as you are legally obliged to put all deposits in a scheme within (check number) of weeks, could you send me details so I can request return of the deposit". If they had any brains they will pay the deposit back instead of much larger amount in a fine. In me experience it is all done by email. All my communication with the DID is by email.

My not me experience

Believe me - the LL will know they are legally obliged to protect your deposit, especially if they employ a managing agent, unless of course, she is just the LL's employee.

I once worked for one git guy who set himself up as a landlord as a sideline with a crappy house he slapped some paint around to update it. He knew zip about his obligations and the law and when I told him his response was, 'Oh I'm not paying for that; I'll just ask the tenants for less than a month's rent. They can pay a bigger deposit if they want it protected'. (It costs a LL about 30 - he was loaded.) He was horrible - I hope either he has seen the light or one of his tenants has taken him to court.

wow yeah i once lived in a bedsit as a teen my landlord didnt protect my deposit ( which i only realise now after reading this thread)

i was in the smallest room, i used to joke about my room being the utility closet. until environmental health came round one day and my LL asked me to lie and say that this wasn't my room i was just in there because my ceiling ws being plastered. EH wasn't stupid they could tell that room was being lived in. they said "oh mr asshat we have told you before that this room is not to be rented" it WAS the utility cupboard and he was illegally charging me £350 a month to sleep in it.

looking back i should of made a big deal out of that. but being just 18 i didn't know my rights. some LL really are just arseholes.

I've been dealing with tenancies for years, and its a rarity for a tenant to clean a flat on exit. But they always complain about how filthy it was when they moved in - when they move out, of course. And they will also sign an inventory but make no mention of the alleged filthiness, nor take their own photos. We pay for cleaners from deductions from deposits, so we know it is clean when someone moves in. And we have third parties to back this up.

But sorry, if you don't dust skirting boards for months or more, they are very difficult to get clean. You can hoover off the surface dust, and then try scrubbing off the rest with furniture polish or even Flash. The dust remnants then get wet and combine into black balls of dust which stick to the skirting board. I find the best way of restoring them is to hoover off the surface dust and then repaint the skirting boards.

It is a huge amount of work. And I've never known anyone to hoover daily.

How on earth do you manage to scuff and dent a door, which is your own property? Did you keep kicking it to open it? I live in my own house, and I wouldn't dream of treating it like that, never mind someone else's property, where I was hoping to get a deposit back.

And tenancy deposit scheme is currently into its second month of failing to return my tenant's deposits. Despite me telling them on the day after they left that they could have their deposits back in full (we asked them to pay for cleaners before they moved out and inspected it and to replace the items they had broken, still we will have to get our own cleaners in at our own expense to get it to a better standard).

chelsy please read the full thread.

But sorry, if you don't dust skirting boards for months or more i cleaned them every few days thankyou very much and they was properly cleaned the day i moved. i also hoovered every day.

and no i did not kick my door to open it. surely you dont think thats the only way to create a scuff? besides its the kicthen door thats scuffed not my front door

I would have made a pretty good guess that it would be your kitchen door that was scuffed, OP.

Oh fuck off Chelsy.

Tenants are generally not experts in signing tenancies. You are though. Your inventory should describe the cleanliness and condition of everything - walls, carpets, everything.

And they don't need to take photos. You need to prove the condition when they checked out is dirtier than when they moved in - you are the one claiming the loss, you need the proof.

And really, accusing the OP of kicking the door? How the fuck do you work that out?

This is why people hold landlords and letting agents in such utter contempt.

The biggest filth is not I think on the skirting boards.

Plates in either hand, kick door to open...

Sorry, but denting doors just isn't on. I'd be horrified if I dented a door in my own home, because I'd have to pay to get it replaced.

I can now spot dirt several metres away. Its amazing what an eye you develop for it, and what sorts of dirt becomes invisible to otherwise very clean people.

I've never known anyone to hoover daily though. Invariably most tenants phone to complain their hoover has broken, you go round to fix it and its simply needing the bag changed or is blocked.

Aga And really, accusing the OP of kicking the door? How the fuck do you work that out?

Doors don't dent themselves. Neither do they scuff themselves. Dents along with scuffs indicate kicking to open are the most likely cause, particularly since its the kitchen.

Oh, and fuck off yourself.