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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

MY previous landlord wants to detuct £40 from my deposit because there was dust on the skirting boards.

186 replies

TurtleyAmazing · 05/06/2014 10:20

I have just recieved an email from my property manager regarding my deposit for the flat we moved out of a few months ago. now i was expecting SOME deductions of my deposit as i did scuff and mark the walls a little, not a lot just everyday wear and tear sort of thing.

I can't say i was expecting her to deduct a total of £210 though!

this is the email i recieved...

vacuum all carpets £40
skirtings were dusty £40
oven and extractor fan to be cleaned £60
clean the grout in the shower £40
scuffs on walls £10
small dent to the kitchen door £20

now, i have many issues with this. i used to hoover or sweep my carpet every single day without fail. it was a horrible carpet which just collected dust and grit and i couldnt stand the feeling of walking on it barefoot without giving it a good vacuum first. the very last thing i did before walking out of the door the final time was vacuum the whole flat. so i can say with 100% certainty that this is total BS.

£40 for some dust on a skirting board is fucking disgusting! how anyone can justify that i don't know!! it doesn't need painting just simply dusting.

I have never ever used the oven extractor. i opened it when i first moved in saw the dirty grimmy muck behind it and never opened it again. as for the oven itself when we moved in the glass door was so caked in shit you couldn't see into the oven through it. i scrubbed and scrubbed that thing for hours until the glass became clear so if anything the oven is in a better state now than it was when we moved in.

grout in the shower £40 the flat had a bad mould issue, the shower cubicle was damp and mouldy when we moved in the grout was possibly a bit worse when we left so i sort of understand that deduction although that was not our fault.

scuffs and dent to the door £30 yes, i scuffed the wall and supposedly dented the door thats fine i will glady pay the money for that.

she has also sent me the inventory for the flat with pictures of all the damage we had supposedly done. we didn't recieve one at the beggining of our tenancy though so she is swearing blind that all these problems were caused by us yet they truly was there when we moved in, we just have no way of proving it.

if you have made it this far thankyou Wine
what would you do in this situation?

OP posts:
IfNotNowThenWhen · 05/06/2014 11:15

Wear and Tear (scuff marks etc) is allowable and you should not be charged.
I once had a LL try and charge me because the oven wasnt clean enough. It was a hell of a lot cleaner than when i moved in!
I have scrubbed from top to bottom every house I have ever moved into, as they have always been grotty on moving in, and yet every place I have moved out of, bar one, the LL has tried to stiff me over every little thing.

I have lived in 20 rented places, and in all that time only had one good Landlord. Interestingly, he was a builder with at least 20 flats, and was brilliant with repairs, getting stuff fixed.
I once got locked out of my flat with baby ds in a sling, and nothing with me, no purse etc. I went down to his office in a panic, and he immediately called the locksmith, got my locks changed, new keys, chatted all the while about his kids and when they were babies, and didn't even charge me!
When I moved out, we accidentally chipped a big lump of plaster off the wall with a chair leg, and he never charged me for that either.
God bless that Landlord. But the rest: Bunch of greedy con artists.
I feel for you.

emms1981 · 05/06/2014 11:17

Years ago they could get away with this, our first l.l had £50 off us but the law is on your side now x

SallyMcgally · 05/06/2014 11:17

If you didn't sign the inventory I don't think they can use it. Sounds like they don't have a leg to stand on. Disputes tend to go in favour of tenant anyway. She's trying it on. If she hasn't dealt properly with yr deposit she can be charged up to 3 x your deposit.

Swannery · 05/06/2014 11:18

Cleaners charge approx. £8 per hour. Work out how long it would take a cleaner to do the cleaning they say needs doing, and offer to pay that. I did this with former landlords who wanted to get the oven, which we'd barely used, professionally cleaned at great expense, and complained that I had left some traces of detergent on the worktops after cleaning them. When I mentioned the Deposit Protection scheme they backed down.

wowfudge · 05/06/2014 11:20

There are so many things wrong with the way this is being handled - and I am a LL. Unfortunately, although this is a case of bad LL, as a tenant you need to be more savvy, for your own protection, when dealing with someone like this.

Firstly, the inventory is agreed between you and the LL (or his/her agent) before you move in to the property - in practice a tenant is often asked to sign this as they move in. The LL doesn't just present you with an inventory and you accept it, or tell you they've got one. It is your responsibility to check that everything in it is correct and insist on amendments for anything not noted or incorrectly noted. This is for your own protection. If you haven't signed it, they can't rely on it.

Second, mentioning to issues to the handyman and his anecdotal evidence about issues previous tenants had doesn't help you. When you have a problem, you must tell the LL in writing and request that it is fixed.

As others have stated - your deposit must be protected in a scheme. If it isn't take the LL through the small claims court - the courts are very disapproving of non-compliance with this by LLs and will impose steep fines and compel the LL to return your deposit.

The scuffs and the dent: wear and tear I would say unless there is a lump out of a door or wall. The cleaning - challenge the charges. Unfortunately, if you didn't raise the issue of the filthy cooker hood when you moved in and your tenancy agreement said you had to keep the place clean, then that is difficult to prove.

I would advise you to go, with copies of all correspondence between you and the LL, your tenancy agreement and any deposit protection scheme details, to the CAB and get their advice on writing a letter to the LL covering all the salient points and requesting immediate return of your deposit with the threat of legal action if they don't comply.

Original poster
TurtleyAmazing · 05/06/2014 11:25

The worse thing is if i did pay for a proffessional to clean the oven i can almost gurantee that money will go straight into the LL pocket and the oven will be left exactly as it is. otherwise the oven wouldn't of been in such a shit state when i moved in.

OP posts:
Joysmum · 05/06/2014 11:29

As has been said, the onus of proof is on the LL to provide documentation to the Deposit Scheme. You just ned to call the DS and state that you dispute the claims because the LL never produced an inventory for you to check and sign.

Without that, the DS will find in your favour in due course.

Original poster
TurtleyAmazing · 05/06/2014 11:31

Wowfudge thankyou, that is really helpfull although i should add that the landlord was informed about all issues numerous times when nothing had been done i then showed the handyman as he was surveying electrics etc anyway.

we didn't tell LL in writing though, we spoke on the phone.

Thankyou all for you help, i knew that this wasn't right. Im glad i sought a second opinion before areeing to anything.

OP posts:
specialsubject · 05/06/2014 11:32

what wowfudge said. I'm a landlord.

And it is not a case of 'landlords should not be allowed to get away with it'. Landlords ARE NOT allowed to get away with this.

For next time: don't rent dumps, get informed about business transactions. And those who start the vicious abuse on the 'all landlords are crooks' line are not helping.

Prometheus · 05/06/2014 11:59

We had something similar when we moved out of our rented house last year. They wanted £250 for some small marks on the carpet (which I admitted) but also for daft things like dust on the skirting, we had cleaned the granite worktops in the kitchen with normal kitchen cleaner so it left a residue (simply needed to be wiped off with water). We had hired a cleaner to do the final clean so I knew it was in a better state than when we moved in.

I laughed at the lady on the phone and offered £100 for the small damage we did cause and told her to prove that there was no dust on the skirting when we moved in (dust-free skirtings were not mentioned on the inventory etc.). She realised she didn't have a leg to stand on and took the £100.

mandyhoyle1987 · 05/06/2014 12:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
TurtleyAmazing · 05/06/2014 12:05

prometheus brilliant idea! i may well have to use this
prove that there was no dust on the skirting when we moved in

I don't mind paying for any ligitimate damage at all but i just still can't get my head around them wanting £40 for a dusty skirting board! thats one of the most ridiculous things i have ever heard.

OP posts:
Joysmum · 05/06/2014 12:11

I'm a LL too and always try to help. Not all of us are bad. In fact I rented a couple places too until we set up home and had no issues there either.

£10hr for 4hrs is excessive charges to clean the skirting boards, even if there was an inventory backing him up.

APlaceInTheWinter · 05/06/2014 12:21

I realise the skirting board issue is annoying you but tbh that isn't the big issue here. They could easily justify that cost by getting a quote from a cleaning company.

However as others have said, they can't just keep money from your deposit. You need to agree to any charges. Since you don't then the matter goes to arbitration and they have to prove (using the signed inventory and photos) that their claims are valid.

If the deposit wasn't in a deposit scheme then they are in an even worse position as legally it should be. As a pp said, then you can go to the small claims court to claim your deposit back. You can also report them to the local landlord registration scheme (or threaten to do so).

hth

Original poster
TurtleyAmazing · 05/06/2014 12:21

the skirting boards don't need to be cleaned, they was cleaned down with a wet sponge before we left so it is infact just dust thats the 'problem' not dirt. I used to dust those skirting boards ( every room inc stairs) every few days it took me around 20 minutes if that and thats with darting back and forth tending to a baby.

its daylight robbery!

i think i need to get out more, im way to wound up about this

OP posts:
VivaLeBeaver · 05/06/2014 12:23

As a landlord I would expect to either roll my sleeves up and scrub a house between tenants myself or pay a professional company to do it for me.

Littlef00t · 05/06/2014 12:27

They can only deduct money if they can PROVE you weren't given the property in the state you left it. You MUST demand a copy of your checking in inventory. If the state is not mentioned, they can't take ANYTHING. I doubt they stated the skirting boards were dust and dirt free specifically etc.

Good luck!

Original poster
TurtleyAmazing · 05/06/2014 12:27

I realise this isn't the main issue a place its just the cherry on top of the cake for me. as i said upthread i would of probably took it on the chin and put it down as experience if it wasn't for that.

either way they didnt produce an inventory for us to sign so from what i have read they are in the wrong there, aswell as leaving it 2 months before discussing it with us. i will get DP to gather all relevent documents tonight and we will start the dispute.

thankyou all for your help it is very much appreciated.

OP posts:
LemonSquares · 05/06/2014 12:29

You need to challenge it via the deposit protection scheme where your deposit will be held.

Do this. ^^

This scheme came in after we'd finished renting - so we got hit hard with rubbish like this.

Once had 300 taken because we hadn't had it cleaned professionally - it had been cleaned but didn't have recipts for a company- been a tip when I'd moved in and inventory reflect this. Another time agents tried to charge 50 for reporting a pre-exiting issue with flats washing machine and said they were fixing it in same letter.

zipzap · 05/06/2014 12:32

Try asking about this in the legal or property/landlord topic. If you can, find out if the landlord put your deposit into the proper scheme or not. If they didn't then I believe that you can claim up to 3x your deposit in damages, regardless of the state you left the property in.

Obviously it sounds like you left it in much better shape than you found it and from what others have said they have left it too late to claim anything from you but it's always nice to know what you're doing when you explain why they can't ask for this and you might end up with extra deposit money out of them too, which would be good!

PostmanPatAlwaysRingsTwice · 05/06/2014 12:34

If the skirting boards haven't been cleaned since you moved out of course they're dusty!

Definitely challenge the whole claim. Good luck.

Original poster
TurtleyAmazing · 05/06/2014 12:54

I'm starting to think that they haven't put my deposit into a proper scheme other wise i assume i would of been contacted within the 30 day time period and would of had the remains of my deposit back by now after all we did move out on april 1st so its been two months.

OP posts:
Paq · 05/06/2014 12:56

Not necessarily - it's usually up to the landlord to tell the deposit scheme when the tenants have moved out.If they haven't done this, the scheme won't know.

Original poster
TurtleyAmazing · 05/06/2014 13:00

oh right, how would i find out if they have used a scheme or not then? or will that be investigated within the dispute i fully intend to take with them?

OP posts:
IglooisnowinSheffield · 05/06/2014 13:02

Absolutely challenge, an agent tried to charge us similar (including dust on top of the fridge!) and I asked them to prove that the property was immaculate when we moved it - it wasn't, I spent days scrubbing it. I also left the house spotless.

Did the do any inspections during tenancy? I also used these to my defence, there were never any issues on inspection. I got full deposit back.

I am a landlord and a tenant now and don't think wear and tear should be a reason to withhold deposit.