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To be shocked at Sky News' coverage of the excavations in Praia Da Luiz?

433 replies

ziggiestardust · 02/06/2014 12:14

I didn't see a lot of the initial coverage, as I was working abroad in 2007. But the Police are potentially excavating a little girl's body, regardless of the circumstances, and they've got live cameras at the scene, waiting. It's macabre, and it seems like regardless of the fact MM was a tiny little defenceless girl, she's fair game for the media.

I just think it's shitty. Do a quick piece on it, but is there any need for the close ups of the excavation site and a blow by blow account of what's happening?

Her poor family Sad

OP posts:
LaVolcan · 04/06/2014 10:34

Longtail: I do think the Media went over the top then and continue to do so but I can't really go along with all you say.

The McCanns weren't officially made suspects (arguidos) until just before they came home in the September, so what was to stop them putting their side of the story across until then? They did want publicity - they wanted Madeleine's name to be kept in the public's attention. No doubt, like a number of celebrities have found to their cost, publicity can be a double edged sword.

limitedperiodonly · 04/06/2014 13:18

I don't think you actually understand what the issue some people have with this is

I do understand the issue some people here have with it, I just don't agree with it.

From your posts it is clear you don't understand how news is gathered

The idea that anyone would wait for a phone call inviting them to a press conference so the police can announce they've found a child at the centre of one of the biggest news stories in recent years, rather than being on the spot and just saying it, makes that plain.

That's fine. I wouldn't understand the ins and outs of your job, either.

You and others are trying to dictate the way reporters gather information for what appears to be your personal taste. I find that as distasteful as the worst media excesses.

I said last night that you should gather news but you should be mindful of what you release - as much to prevent damage to yourself, as to others. Or did you not notice the bit where I supported Christopher Jefferies in going after the papers that had libelled him?

This is as much a publicity stunt by the police - both Met and Portuguese - as a serious exercise in gathering evidence. As such, it appears the press are very welcome. I imagine the McCanns probably welcome the renewed focus on the search for their daughter as well.

You mentioned the tents. That seems a relevant and harmless point to make. The police were searching in the open, they erected tents which might suggest they have found something they want to examine in privacy, or they might want to make it look like they've found something to justify the expense and attention that other cases of missing children aren't getting.

I'm not exercised about that last point, but it's a possibility and one that wasn't reported.

What I would ask you is how you think this reporting from the scene hurts anyone apart from people involved in local tourism? If Gerry and Kate McCann were being doorstepped, you'd have a point. But as far as I know, they're not.

You talk about me having a bee in my bonnet about the way the media are treated. I don't really, we can stand up for ourselves. But I could say the same about you and the way you perceive the media are behaving in this instance.

You said I hadn't answered your questions. I thought I had, and I wasn't trying to be patronising. I was trying to explain how it works to a person I wouldn't expect to know.

But simply put; I take on board your POV, but I do not agree with it.

The media have done many things - which is why I persist in saying that Leveson, the phone-hacking trial and the feeble interrogations of the Culture, Media and Sport sub-committee are very relevant to this thread.

This is not one of those occasions.

If you don't approve, turn off the TV, do not read tabloids. BTW, the broadsheets will also have people there because if Madeleine is found, they won't want to miss it either. They just don't report it every day because they have a different news agenda.

longtalljosie It is simply unbelievable that the police from both countries are not giving detailed off-the-record briefs to selected reporters.

In this case I find that routine and helpful - 'please don't reveal this; as a reward we'll give you that; you're barking up the wrong tree' - it's a good working relationship.

That's despite what I said about Leveson, hacking and the CMS committee, which revealed to the general public the unhealthy relations between police, the press and politicians and convicted and alleged criminals.

That's the general public who want to listen rather than people who want to dismiss it as all so tawdry.

noddyholder · 04/06/2014 13:29

I think this also depends on how much you take on this sort of news story yourself or whether you are able to distance yourself from people that you don't know and have no connection with. I think the idea of losing a child in this way is heartbreaking and I don't really have any concept of it personally but much as I sympathise I don't find the coverage distressing as it is unrelated to me and my family. Some people would find this harder and I think this is what this is about it is this specific case not its reporting. Like when Diana died the mass grief was something I didn't feel part of at all

kim147 · 04/06/2014 14:25

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limitedperiodonly · 04/06/2014 15:13

But Kim147 what is your objection? We both seem to agree that on this occasion reporters are hanging about wasting their time or their employers' time and money.

So why are you so worked up about it? Switch off the telly.

OutsSelf · 04/06/2014 15:29

Limited, you need to read the thread and pay attention to the detail of the objections Kim, I and others are raising. It's about the way that this is being framed. If you can't discern the difference between a live televised feed to a potential grave digging and a report of one, you have forgotten what it is like not to be a reporter and instead be told things like this as a form of entertainment

MadameDefarge · 04/06/2014 15:43

I disagree out. Limited has said nothing other than the truth, The fact that you personally, and it seems Kim, find the ongoing coverage to hard to bear because of the subject matter is conflating your personal feelings with a notional idea of the correct ethical stand for news organisations.

I am afraid I find it mawkish in the extreme.

kim147 · 04/06/2014 15:58

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MadameDefarge · 04/06/2014 15:59

And by that logic outs, there should have been no live coverage of the unearthing of mass graves in Bosnia...

having news organisations present all the time does not mean continual coverage...it means they are on site if and when there are any developments.

That is the nature of news coverage. If you choose to interpret that as more redolent of entertainment than normal news coverage that is entirely up to you.

As a consumer of the news, in all its forms, when do I consider my interest that of wishing to be entertained? pretty well never. Do I consider the media organisations are purveying information for entertainment? Well yes, sometimes, but not, I think,in this instance.

MadameDefarge · 04/06/2014 16:02

kim, to reduce the story to a patch of wasteland being searched is ridiculous.

I have seen nothing of the coverage so far to suggest an intrusive or distasteful tone to it.

limitedperiodonly · 04/06/2014 16:02

OutsSelf What are you watching? I'm not watching a 'live televised feed to a potential grave digging'.

If I was, I'd turn it off.

Not just because it would be distasteful but more importantly because it would be boring.

OutsSelf · 04/06/2014 16:04

I'm not disagreeing with the truth of what limited says, I'm objecting to the way it's being handled. I think that the way it is being handled changes how we perceive it, so we treat it as entertainment and not as something awful. I'm saying that change diminishes our collective capacity for empathy, instead we get a taste for vicarious thrills. I'm also saying that that process is driven by commercial interests and not the public interest, and commercial interests, not a democratic need for accountability.

I do have that set of questions about The News in general but concede that the answer is not the curtailing of press freedoms. But I would like the press to consider and take responsibility for that damage that I name. It's not "just" MM at all, but this case is the subject of this thread. I don't understand how that is mawkish, genuinely, I'm not being combative here.

It's not that I find this case.especially distressing, it's that I find the transformation of it so it has the aesthetics of entertainment problematic. And that stands whether or not I personally watch the coverage.

OutsSelf · 04/06/2014 16:07

Agreed, news organisations present is important not so much for this case but in principle.

My problem is the live updates of the situation that have no actual news because nothing has actually happened.

kim147 · 04/06/2014 16:09

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OutsSelf · 04/06/2014 16:11

Limited, when you say that boredom would be worse than the "distaste" of live grave digging, you sound lacking in empathy. What kind of twisted priority is that?

MadameDefarge · 04/06/2014 16:14

But surely that has always been the essential antagonism at the heart of news coverage? From the very first newspapers, delivering the news, or an agenda has always been allied to making money. If we allow that news outlets need to make money to exist and bring us the news, we allow that they will often have their own agendas, and it is up to us to be aware of those agendas.

Infotainment is a particular breed of output, and I really don't see it here, above and beyond normal news output.

MadameDefarge · 04/06/2014 16:15

I think limited is using the word boredom to make her point. We do not actually have minute by minute coverage.

OutsSelf · 04/06/2014 16:25

Agreed, it's been a constant antagonism, and that actually what we need to do is constantly monitor and debate it. So here I am.

Early Radio 4 news bulletins would sometimes "end" early with the broadcaster saying, "there's no more news tonight". They might then start reading interesting bits from the paper or whatever.

Obviously there are all sorts of potential problems there, too. But at the same time, there's no needless injection of adrenaline and fear to the fact that "NOTHING'S HAPPENED!!!"

The aesthetics of this are not without consequence - that's not a radical (or mawkish?) statement, surely?

MadameDefarge · 04/06/2014 16:28

Indeed out, you are right.

But I don't think it helps the debate to suggest that someone has no empathy because they disagree with you.

OutsSelf · 04/06/2014 16:29

Although I said it up thread, I'm going to repeat for clarity so you can see I'm not just asking for curtailing of.press freedoms - I'd really like to.see some way of making commercial implications and interests of editorial decisions made transparent as part of the coverage. I think this would be the only actual way to a square the democratic accountability argument because atm that argument is used as a fig leaf for bad behaviour.

kim147 · 04/06/2014 16:32

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OutsSelf · 04/06/2014 16:35

Well, I do think many of those statements that I name that limited has made do sound lacking in empathy. I'm not trying to discredit her on the basis of that, sorry if it appears that way, which inevitably it does, sorry limited. At the same time I stand by the fact that those assertions of limited's which I have specifically named sound lacking in empathy. And I've named them because the speak in some way to my problem with the effect of entertainment as an aesthetic on "real" news events.

wannaBe · 04/06/2014 16:38

but there isn't actually live coverage, is there?

If there was a live feed to the digging then of course it would be distasteful, and yes, as limited said, boring, given that there generally isn't much to see. But given there is an expectation that something may be found (they wouldn't be digging otherwise) of course the media are going to be there, and of course it will be reported because otherwise that just opens up the floodgates to speculation...

And fwiw it's not necessarily a body they're looking for but evidence of the earth having been disturbed where the body may have been put there and subsequently moved....

There are also reports on the bbc this morning that ground penetrating radar is being used and that a sewage system will be examined....

When every detail of this case has previously been disclosed, it would seem much more suspicious and cause more speculation if there was no reporting until there was something to report....

OutsSelf · 04/06/2014 16:39

Okay, I've just read back a bit and can I clarify that I don't think individual reporters at the site are guilty of bad behaviour by being there to report it. I'm questioning the editorial decision to constantly live update from the site, with occasional snapshots of the McGs in their tortured distress, really problematic.

MadameDefarge · 04/06/2014 16:41

I also take issue with the idea that the end game of something to report is a body.

Something to report can be other things entirely, as wannabe suggests.

If all you are interested in is whether they find a body or not, then yes, I can see that you would think any other reporting is pointless.

But I am not sure that is the point of the current action. And to castigate those who are reporting 'smaller' things just reveals ones own interest rather than a valid critique of the coverage.