To think we are not great at naturally accepting learning disabilities in our every day lives?

[RapidRainer]

I really hope I'm not crossing a line here but wanted to be honest. Yesterday in the supermarket a very nice man of about 40 came up and started cuddling me. He had a learning disability, down syndrome I think and was happily talking to me and my children. He kept cuddling me and stroking my hair and then my children. He obviously meant no harm but I felt uncomfortable and tried to deal with it kindly, however my 3 year old obviously also felt uncomfortable. I didn't know how to deal with this situation and I think it showed to my 3 yr old ds. I literally waited for the person he was with to come over and remove the man from the situation. I wasn't annoyed at this man, I was annoyed at myself. I consider myself a kind person, but I felt I dealt with this situation badly and did not set a good example for my ds. I feel I lacked a skill set or the confidence to communicate well with this man, which was unfair to him. I spoke to a few friends at an event after and they agreed they wouldn't really have known what to do and then I kept thinking why is this? Ok so this man did not behave by what we consider to be set social convention, but actually he was nothing but kind and gentle so what is the problem? I don't feel we generally deal well with learning disabilities in our society? I'm really sorry this post is not meant to cause any offence but would welcome others views as I don't think I am the only person who would have struggled in this scenario but I do think I as an individual and society more widely need to become more accepting and find a way to addressing this. As I said above I feel I dealt with this badly rather than in a positive way.

Yabu, why should you stand there and accept being cuddled by this man, disability or not. If you found him cuddling your child, would you seriously stand there and let him carry on?

Fair point. It wasn't whether or not I would accept the behaviour in any other scenario, it was whether I dealt with it well and I didn't, I literally just stood there until someone else came along.

I would not take kindly to some random stranger cuddling my kids or I regardless of any learning disability.

Well I think you are right about society not being very accepting of people with learning disabilities but in the scenario you describe I don't think it is unreasonable to feel uncomfortable with unwanted physical contact from another adult. You were understanding. I would have been understanding but I wouldn't have liked it and would have tried (kindly) to disengage myself.

Would you have found interacting with him as difficult if he hadn't been touching you?

It terms of dealing with it I would tell them to stop immediately. I don't think in this situation you would have much time to consider what would be an appropriate reaction especially if children are involved.

Then in answer to your question I would say no you didn't handle it well.
Even though your children saw you being uncomfortable, you did nothing about it. The message they might receive is that if it someone does this to you, even though you don't like it it's ok to allow someone to carry on because they're disabled? I would have told him to please not do that.

I used to work with people with LDs and it is very complicated. That man might be kind and gentle but he is an adult man and adult men can't touch strangers without permission. A firm 'no' is OK. You are allowed your bodily autonomy. There can be issues because an adult with LDs is an adult with all the desires and feelings of any other adult.

However, I think we are bad at inclusivity. We teach our children to be worried and scared of the 'other'. This does need to be addressed.

You say something like,it's very nice he wants to make friends but it's usually nicer to get to know people first before giving them a hug, and that this can be frightening for children so make sure he checks with their mum or dad first.

You can be nice and friendly, teach them something, and put boundaries in place - really :)

'To think we are not great at naturally accepting learning disabilities in our every day lives?'

I absolutely agree with this but would not have put up with the actions of a grown man that made me and my children feel uncomfortable.

The question to ask then is why, in 40 years of being alive, did he not receive adequate intervention to enable him to behave appropriately and in particular in a manner which would keep HIM safe? You were kind, I imagine this kind of behaviour puts him in an incredible vulnerable position with many others.

I am appalled that this happened, that he has been so utterly failed in this way and that you were expected to put up with it or face guilt. That is not how civilised societies work.

DH works with LD and in particular down syndrome.

He said he would ask the man to stop and shake his hand and say that you cant just hug a stranger. He says that if you treat someone as an equal then you tell them. you wouldnt accept that from someone without LD.

They need social barriers too and i wouldnt accept beibg hugged unless i knew them and certainly not my child

why should you accept behaviour from someone with LD that you wouldn't accept from anyone else?

I have a daughter (7) with a learning disability & I agree wholeheartedly with Starlight,that the people mainly involved in this mans life have let him down,on how to deal with people in general.
It is my responsibility to educate my daughter on how to behave in public,as it is for any parent.Yes,she sometimes does things that attract attention & make her stand out,but I try to point inappropriate actions out to her.
But at the same time I feel ALOT of children AND parents do not make allowances for differences in our society & this breaks my heart.She is desperate to fit in & appear (hate this word) 'normal' but ALOT of the time people won't take the time to understand her.
I doubt this lack of understanding & in some instances,ignorance will never change but I live in hope,for a better future that is more accepting for her

I wouldn't have accepted being hugged. I would have removed myself and kindly said, no, you can't hug me because you don't know me and I don't want to be hugged. Then perhaps proactively asked the person he was with to help. It was nice of you to be kind to him, but perhaps it's kinder to reinforce the social norms that this man needs to take account of in order to keep himself safe? It sounds like he's not able at the moment to do that for some reason, but that doesn't mean you need to put up with something you don't like. His carer should have been more on the ball.

chicken this is what I mean. I don't mean to say that I thought the behaviour was acceptable, just that I did not deal with it in a very positive way and let both the man involved down by not being kind but clear, and didn't set a good example for ds in overcoming that ignorance.

My brother has Downs and another few LDs on top, and we and his carers (he is 27) try so hard to avoid this situation, but it does occasionally happen, by DB would mean no harm either, and is very lovely but he needs to learn hugging strangers or bring overly intimate with strangers isn't okay, so the best thing would have been to pull away from the hug, and offer a handshake. I think it is perfectly okay to feel uncomfortable when you personal space is being invaded, especially if your DC are confused to boot.

Society is really poor at being inclusive, which is shitty but I don't really think this is an indication of this, I think this is a situation that most people would find difficult.

I have kind of been in this situation with one of the residents where ds lives. She is very very friendly but has been directed to shake hands and ask your name, which she now does every time she sees me. She's great.

We went to a disco for adults with additional needs at Christmas with my ds and she was also there. She asked me to dance with her and at the end of the evening asked for a hug.

I think in the case of unwanted hugs I'd have offered a hand to shake and asked their name and distracted them with friendly conversation.

The problem here isn't that you didn't have the perfect way of dealing with this automatically, it's that this vulnerable person was let down by the people who should have prevented this situation occurring.

It sounds like you dealt with it as well as anyone could be expected to, no amount of acceptance or understanding would make it ok for a stranger to come up and cuddle you. What if you were someone who was even more uncomfortable with that sort of contact because of abuse, or if you'd had an injury, or if you were the sort of person that would be likely to physically remove someone from touching you to the point that you could cause them harm?

It is very difficult. I work with adults with LD who now live in their own homes with 24 hour support. Previous to this they had lived, since childhood, in a hospital environment. For some of them this has meant almost 50 years of 'institutionalisation' and being hidden away, going swimming, dancing etc exclusively with others with a LD.
Imagine being in your 40s or 50s and never having been to a supermarket to choose your own fruit to go in your own fruit bowl or your own cup to drink out of. I think it would be overwhelming going from a world where literally everyone you met was in some way involved in your care and welcomed your cuddles to meeting strangers everywhere and wanting to feel secure.
When I am out in the community with the people I support they often approach people who look like family members or past members of staff. Most people, like you OP, are lovely but apprehensive until I intervene. I don't blame you and would be the same.

You froze probably didnt want to look bad however regardless of this mans disability itsnot ok for him to hug random people I would have took a step back smiled said hello and looked around for somebody who was with him, some people cant understand boundries I think its up to us to be kind but help them set boundries,

You know you didnt do anything wrong

My sister's friend is very like this. He will talk to anyone and everyone and has no qualms about asking very personal questions. He means no
harm at all but he's six foot tall, a big burly lad and I know some people just don't know how to handle it.

With him distraction works fairly well - but it's exhausting for his poor mam.

I attended an open day at sisters day care yesterday and was thrilled to see that a good number of those who turned up weren't obviously disabled or carers (compared to when her school held an open day and everyone who
turned up was either visibly disabled or supporting someone who was). I think a lot of it is fear of the unknown - my sisters day centre is 6 miles into countryside and not readily accessible to the public unless they're in the know isywim. Not easy to get used to things - for service users and public - if they're always kept apart!

I have found that as children, we were beer taught about LDs and although we had children in our school who had them, we kept out of their way without knowing what LDs they have (they've not gone away!) and how to better understand them. I spent time in secondary school being quite wary of a few students who were unpredictable and who were great personal space invaders and I'm sure some time spent talking about what different LDs do and how to manage them would have been really beneficial to everyone. I can remember on a few occasions one girl having coins thrown at her till she was in a real mess.

It's only since becoming a parent that I've really started researching different LDs, Autism, Aspergers and Downs Syndrome and I know that I've still got a lot of learning to do!

When I have seen adults in public places before, such as the man that you describe, I too have struggled with what the "correct" thing to do, but instinctively step back to reclaim my personal space and be polite as possible. Carer/companion is never too far behind.

I'm making mental notes of what PPs have said about a firm No if things get touchy feely.

No-one teaches us these things

I think you are right, OP. Conversations like these are important.

I don't have too much patience for people invading my space. My knee jerk reaction is to act a bit aggressively towards it.

The closest I've gotten to being ok with it was one of the SN kids in high school coming up to hug me. But they were just kind of known for giving random hugs so it was ok. We knew them and recognized them though and that makes a huge difference I think.

I have had people in the city with SN randomly come up and touch me and my instinct is to snap and tell them to back off. I had one guy in the mall pet my arm when I was a teen, I snapped at him because in the corner of my eye he was just some big guy grabbing my arm. I didn't realize he was SN until he looked kicked and started talking funny (for lack of better word). I felt bad about it and my mom who was with me at the time swooped in and talked to him while I sort of snuck to a different part of the store.

I had another guy, I couldn't tell if he had SN, MH, or what but he wouldn't get out of my space bubble, and kept asking about my day in a way I thought was aggressive. I got upset and told him he needed to go away. He apologized pretty quick and ran off like a kicked puppy, leaving me feeling a bit guilty and very confused.

It would be nice to have a hand book on how to deal with these things. At the same time I think a lot of these men need to understand that they're big guys, and that can be a bit intimidating to get in someone's face.

Is the main thing not that you were aware he had LD so behaved in a different way to norma,which we all wouldl. How you would have reacted at your daughters age, who knows, we aren't trained for this sort of thing, we just react.

What did you say your child about it ?