To ask my neighbour about England flag bunting?

[nuffinthemule]

My neighbour is outside on a ladder attaching England-flag bunting to the lampost outside his house (on the pavement). Is there a sport-related reason for hanging bunting this weekend that I have forgotten about or am I right to be slightly wtf? We live in a very multicultural area and I think it looks a bit aggressive and unwelcoming, although I accept it might not have been his intention. I know the neighbour to say hello to only and although he's always been reasonably friendly I have tbh been keeping a bit of distance as I know other neighbours have fallen out with him. Would you ask him why he is hanging it, do you think? Or am I being paranoid? And if you agree it is a bit dodgy how do I get him to take it down?

Maybe if more people flew the flag it would counter the racists who try to hijack it?
I was in the US 2 weeks after 9/11 and was moved by the displays of US flags, not only flying outside houses, but on cars, worn as badges etc.
go to certain towns in NI and you'll see the Union Jack being flown, pavements painted red, white and blue as a message. It is not just the English who use a national symbol in this way.
I was born in Scotland but come from a European background and would have no issue with my neighbours flying any flag they choose.

At football matches NF and EDL members used to take along flags and chant racist abuse whilst holding the flags at both the players and members of the crowd.

THE NF I will give you, but the EDL have only been in existence for about right years, so I am not sure how you think they managed to be active and engaged in racist chanting in the 1970s.

They NF and other far right scumbags don't own the cross of Saint George any they shouldn't be allowed to own it. Displaying a flag during a football tournament your country is involved in is about the most unloaded and unaggressive way to do that. If the flag flying during the world cup was a whites-only thing, than yes it would make me feel very uncomfortable indeed. But it really isn't and people from all ethnic groups get involved.

Football and society has changed since the 1970s, not in over 20 years of going to football matches have I heard mass racist chanting or booing of black players. In fact I I can only recall hearing one racist comment made directed at an Asian linesman and they were shouted down by the person next to them.

I would argue that on the whole football (John Terry aside) has been important in creating a more inclusive and less aggressive sense of civic English identity and the world cup is an ideal forum for people of different backgrounds to come together.

Nuffinthemule, I agree with you. The flag has been hijacked by the EDL and other far right organisations in recent years.

To me, it's on a par with the Confederate flag now.

Which is a shame.

corey that is because we have Hearts and Hibs here in Edinburgh and some fans have an equally entrenched attitude. Some fans. Not all.
There are loads of Orange walks every summer across Scotland as well as in NI.

I know, Katie, but Hearts and Hibs is nothing like the Old Firm, with all its attendant associations of sectarian violence.

We had more Orange walks here in Glasgow last year than in NI.

Flying a Union

impatient I was around in the 1970s and feel the same way. Seeing the England flag prominently displayed makes me feel uneasy. I love my country but I associate being English with being quietly proud of our beautiful country, not ostentatiously flag waving.

I wouldn't dream of telling anyone to remove a flag though. Far too polite!

I complete understand where the OP is coming from. Growing up in the 70s the NF was everywhere and took away our flag. Also the years of British rule, treating other countries like shit, our involvement in the slave trade etc made me embarrassed by our flag (s).

But in recent years, largely as a result of sporting events both flags are being reclaimed. Representing the good things about England.

I live in a multicultural area and people of all backgrounds fly the flags around sporting events. Alongside flags of some of the many other nations (Pakistan, Poland, Ireland and Jamician being the most popular ). I love it a bit of a fuck you to the EDL and their thick ilk.

Bugger my phone...

Flying a Union Jack in Glasgow is not at all comparable to flying a St George's Cross in England. The former is a political statement in a way that the latter simply isn't. Glasgow has historic problems with NI-style sectarianism which doesn't exist in England to any extent.

I remember last Bonfire Night, someone from the west of Scotland complaining about it and saying it should be banned. I enjoyed the reply from someone from Sussex: "We don't do sectarianism down here ThankYouVeryMuch".

The 70s were 40 years ago.

I think that response from the Sussex person demonstrated that they are ignorant of the origins of Bonfire night and of the fact that some Catholics do regard the burning of an effigy of a Catholic to be sectarian.
Just because something is part of the culture of the UK doesn't mean it does not have racist origins that can offend others. They sound very stupid and complacent.

this isn't 40 years ago

neither is this

Toad, havin lived in Sussex they sure as hell do racist though.

I am rather surprised to learn that bunting has feelings and emotions to be able to be aggressive and unwelcoming .

We are England and should be allowed to fly our flag whenever we want.

People's memories last longer than 40 years. Do you really think that being afraid of being hospitalised by a flag carrying thug on a daily basis is something that goes away easily?
As for the poster who said racist chanting is no longer prominent at football matches, I can assure you that it is. Not only have I witnessed it but there was a programme in the last few months (dispatches/ panorama, I can't remember which) which covertly filmed at several football matches and captured a lot of racist and homophobic chanting. The idiots didn't have flags though.

The EDL might be a newish group, but in my mind they are just another NF. The fact that they are fairly new really adds weight to the argument that racist groups using the flag is both decades old and still current.

Racism is odious, and should never be ignored. However, I think things have moved on in the last 40 years. Racism is now sufficiently unacceptable to mean that a person should be able to fly their national flag without being deemed a racist.

As for Bonfire Night, burning effigies of Guy Fawkes is, I suppose, anti-Catholic if you think he represents modern Catholics. A big hmmm to that one.

How many football matches have you intended Impatient?

I am a season ticket holder at Southampton football club (so attend every home game) and have not once - ever - heard racist chanting.

attended

"So - a question to all those who said that they happily fly their national flag during sporting tournaments... Do you fly your flag all year round or just during world cup/six nations/Wimbledon etc?
If you take it down afterwards, why? Are you not proud of your country outside those times?"

Mildly ridiculous though process there if I may say so.

The flag flying and wearing of sports strips in the team colour is all about evoking a sense of occasion, anticipation and celebration focussed on the sports event (some of us love our sport)....a bit like people put up balloons and streamers for birthdays etc.

I would have thought that was completely obvious

"Racism is now sufficiently unacceptable to mean that a person should be able to fly their national flag without being deemed a racist."

I agree. It's utterly fucking outrageous that they can't. The people to blame are the BNP, the EDL and all the other right and far right groups that have hijacked both the union flag and the St George's Cross with their own agenda. Why not direct your ire in their direction,instead of pretending that this is some madey-uppy stuff by the PC brigade?

toad - I take it from your response that you are not Catholic?
Burning Guys started as an anti-Catholic statement. If a similar tradition started with a figure from another minority, would you think that was ok?

Have I got this wrong-but has someone really said a Union Jack in Scotland is offensive?

I'm so fed up of the sectarian brush being used to tar the whole of Scotland just because there are idiots in Glasgow and the west.

Someone once put it to me this way when I was a baby lawyer going for jobs - if you're asked in Aberdeen which school you were at they want to know if you're local; the same question in Edinburgh it's whether it was state or private but only in Glasgow is it to find out if you're Catholic or Protestant.

A bit of an over-simplification and neither Aberdeen nor Edinburgh are as parochial or as snobbish as the anecdotes suggests.

In my experience sectarianism is a west coast/Glasgow problem.

How many football matches have you intended Impatient?

Quite a few. I used to live a few streets away from a premier league club and my husband regularly go the offer of tickets from colleagues so it would have been silly not to attend given that I could get there in under two minutes and enjoy a game. I like most live sports although football is not my favourite by any means. I would only ever take my children into the family areas and even there you hear the odd thing that children shouldn't be hearing. You must either support a team that only has nice polite fans (unlikely) or you must be oblivious.

England bunting in England how very dare they!

Anyone who finds this aggressive & unwelcoming probably needs some sort of help tbh, either that or they need to emigrate to a Country they feel happy in.