One DD disabled, one not. Help please on appropriate jobs for them!

[Gymbob]

DD 15 is disabled. She's not your usual teen. She is deaf with autistic traits and very difficult to manage. DD 2 is 14 and high achieving. DD 1 does jobs she can manage like walking the dog and washing up. DD 2 is capable of so much more and it has been suggested to me that I am doing her no favours by letting her get off so lightly at home.

This morning I asked her to do jobs as DD1 out working all day. Hit the roof. Also said that from now on rid will be doing her own ironing. She said she would not and would wear creased clothes!

AIBU what would you do?

Mine definitely get that we make allowances for ds3 even dd2 gets that and she has autism herself. I don't think they would be happy though if ds3 had more allowances made for him than was needed and I think it's important that he contributes too for his own self worth as well. They all help him even dd2 but equally they will all tell him to have a go for himself if they think he is trying it on (which he does quite regularly because he is lazy at times)

Yeah, but those are generally sn that are either severe or physical. It's hard to comprehend why someone with say ADHD or ASD can't do something because of sensory issues.

But, I do know that kids with sn can also milk it too. They're human and will get away with being as lazy as they're allowed to too, it's not just a NT thing to want to get out of doing work. Autism doesn't make a kid a saint, they're just as flawed as any NT kid. I have a cousin on the spectrum and I can tell the difference between him not getting social cues and when he's being a stupid jerk. I have a couple LD's and my parents could tell when I was doing my best in a subject and failing and just not bothering to try and blaming it on "I just don't get it".

That said, I do think parents can tell what their children's abilities are and when they're struggling because of the disability and when they're trying to take them for a ride. DD2 might not understand the ironing because she sees her sister doing everything else.

Yeah but come on, it's not like all NT kids are their siblings biggest advocates either. There's still sibling rivalry and lack of patience just like two NT siblings. When my cousin got over stimulated and started hitting me, I didn't step back and go "Oh, he can't really help it, disengaging is just the best thing right now" I slugged him right back and escalated the situation until our parents intervened and put us both in separate rooms. We're still best cousins, but there were things I didn't "get" as a kid.

Just because she's her sibling doesn't mean she has a better pulse on her sister than her mom.

I agree with a previous poster who pointed out that 'autistic traits' suggests nothing has been diagnosed. I don't think that being 'afraid' of the iron and hob is a good enough reason not to do it, tbh. How are you working with her to tackle this fear? Will she never live independently?

I don't know, my ds has 'autistic traits' but no diagnosis of autism - his sensory issues, need for routine and rigidty can make life pretty difficult!

Gymbob are you coming back? Insanityscratching and Deputy and madwoman and others have somewhat similar sounding, or at least relevant experience and constructive suggestions; are they on the right track?

It sounds to me as if DD1 will benefit from being taught how to cope with the everyday tasks she now feels are too overwhelming (being deaf is something people learn to work around and live a totally full, independent life - but some adaptation may be needed - and nobody can know what the Autistic traits amount to without more comprehensive feedback to the suggestions already made). Additionally DD2 deserves to feel that she is not being "dumped on" and that she deserves, and receives, as much consideration, and a realistically equal level of responsibility for chores to her sister... otherwise DD2 will have quite a lot of justification in resenting her parent/s and sister.

Siblings get it in general but that doesn't mean they are always patient with the practicalities. Why should they be? They are not inside their brother or sister's head.

I have issues with anxiety (various phobias) and OCD - thankfully far less than I used to - and my siblings would be immensely frustrated when my phobias meant I couldn't do something that was normal for them, like go for a walk...they always tried to be nice to me but sometimes they lost it and got really angry because I was a weeping heap at the thought of doing something they would never think twice about doing. Happily a combo of meds and CBT and hypnotherapy has made those days mostly a thing of the past but I can understand how frustrating and horrible it made them feel. Especially "Your sister can't do that, so..." (Implication - it's up to you, then.)

I am picturing a small DD2 setting her teeth and thinking "Oh well, so DD1 is so special all she has to do is be REALLY SPECIAL and she doesn't have to do anything she doesn't like. I just have to do anything and everything. Guess I'm not as SPECIAL as her to my mum and dad then". It's unreasonable thinking, but it's how kids understand the world.

Perhaps it might be an idea, as posters have said, stress how when she does things you are so pleased with her. It's tougher for her sister, mum and dad know, and DD2's working very hard. DD2 does things so well and we're proud. Perhaps a treat or something would be in order now and again?

Don't underestate how hard it is to grow up with a disabled sibling. I'm 40-something and it still affects me

just got in but need to sleep. thanks so much for so many more replies and looks like loads of helpful suggestions. be back when digested.night night x x

Ok, I come at this whole jobs thing from a slightly different angle.

My job as a parent is to equip my kids for life. I think that means that by the time they leave home at eg 18 they should know how to:

do washing (and ironing if necessary) - sorting colours, using machine, hanging up, folding, putting away.

clean up the house - washing up, hoovering a floor, cleaning a loo/bath/shower and the rest

change and wash bed sheets/towels

cook a meal.

budget and shop for food.

(there are also things like basic DIY, budgeting etc)

My dcs are 11, 9 and 6, they all do some of the above list, not all the time or every week, but eg dh is away, so they have had to do extra jobs.

So if you come at it from that perspective, what should dd2 AND dd1 be doing towards learning these skills? I do think that doing chores is part of living in a house - you help out and pull your weight - but seeing this from the side of teaching them skills, then I would be asking them both to do more. I would talk to them both about learning to be more independent, and ask them which jobs they would like to take on for the next month/3 months. Let them choose. Are they happier folding and putting away washing, or cleaning the bathroom?

I would also say that at 14, if you hand ironing over to them then you have to not complain or worry if they leave the house in crumpled clothes, even if it makes you cringe, that is their choice.

strawberry lots of children never live independently. I don't think that should be seen as a failing.

zzzzz ...well no, not if they have serious disabilities. But all I can gather about the OP's DD is that she is deaf, and has 'some autistic traits'. A lot depends on the severity of the ASD, of course, but unless very severe then I think independent living needs to be the aim. If she was unable to do some tasks physically, then that's different, but she can't live her life afraid of a hob or an iron.

I'm not suggesting for one second that it will be easy to solve, btw. I'm sure the OP wants her daughter to be able to do these things. I'm just saying that if she is going to live independently, then she needs to be able to do these things.

If I was your DD2, OP, I'd say you have the choice of 3 scenarios:

1. Ironing is an essential life skill- in which case, DD1 needs to learn it also, as she will eventually need to do it.
2. Ironing is non-essential- therefore DD2 doesn't need to do it if she doesn't want to.
3. Ironing is essential, but DD1 will never live independently, so will never have to do it.

If scenario 3 is the reality, then perhaps DD2 needs this explaining to her much more clearly. Does she have more independence than DD1 yet? If she manages to do a part time job, and socialise with friends, then I can totally see why your younger DD doesn't see her as 'unable' to pull her weight in the same way you do.

Don't know if this has been mentioned but is she part of a young carers group? Does she have any interest in joining one? Even if she doesn't want to go on any of the respite activities, they have youth workers who are great to vent to, and it's a chance to meet other young carers too - people who understand and won't be totally shocked if she wants to rant and rave about how unfair it is, because a disabled family member isn't some kind of untouchable higher being - they're a family member and just as annoying as every other family member when you're a teen

Oh and is ironing really a big deal? I don't know anyone who irons

I don't iron very much at all, only if something really needs it. As a teen my mum said I had to do my own. Vanity meant I would actually iron certain items but again only if I had to.

my mum stopped doing all ironing for other members of the family when I was 13 and brothers 15 and 16. She suddenly realised that there were 35 shirts per week and she wasn't prepared to do them.
She sat us down, told us she would teach us if we wanted/needed (but actually we all did know how to) and then handed our clothes over to us.

My brother never, ever, ironed anything. He wore crumpled clothes out to dinner, mum didn't mind, some of her friends were that she 'allowed' him out looking crumpled.

I only iron occasionally, most T shirts/school shirts etc get smoothed and folded. It is really only summer cotton like skirts that I iron.

DD1 walks the dog a few times a week, it's her dog not DD2's. DD2 will only walk the dog for money so I decline.

I'm not sure I could let DD2 go out wearing creased clothes - I feel like it's a reflection on me - and it stems back to my childhood when my mother ironed nothing and my first employer told me to iron my clothes before I came to work the next day. I just couldn't understand what he was on about at the time. Tbh ironing is the least of my worries.

I understand what people are saying when I must find a way round the overwhelming feeling DD1 has when asked to do a task. But when she just sits looking at a pile of socks I've asked her to pair, or given them to her while she watches TV, and she just forgets they are there, or sit with her while I do them too, and she just rocks backwards and forwards. I was quite strict for 5 years, and insisted she cleaned her own room. I did it in stages, made it a game, a race for instance. then you clean that and I'll clean this. I've given up, it caused so much stress to us both I have retired in defeat. I try not to let DD2 know that I clean DD1's room while she's out, but I'm sure she will know.

DD1 has been going to deaf CAMHS for years, and other therapies. She does not socialise as she can't hear in most situations, she hasn't the capacity to keep up socially and obsesses over only one thing. DD2 can't bear to be in the same room as her and is constantly short and rude with her.

spirited mentioned a book I will try - I get all the parenting books people recommend - the last one I got was The Explosive Child, but it's of no use to me as it stops short of telling me what to do when the alternative suggestion doesn't work!

DD2 would not be interested at all in a young carers group - she's just not bothered about DD1, all she does is annoy her. DD1's behaviour drives her to distraction - it makes her scream literally with frustration. She is at the selfish self infatuation stage where only she matters, and she goes to great lengths to ensure she is successful at it.

There is no diagnosis for DD1 other than her deafness, although her psychologist admits she has autistic traits. There is so much more to it than that, but I'm told that as she is not in the bottom 2% of the population we will not get a diagnosis unless we pay thousands of pounds for it. I can't envisage that she will ever live independently at this moment in time.

DH and me are just so tired with it all. I'm sure I'm doing it all wrong and you'll tell me so, but the constant friction, volatile behaviour, rudeness, laziness, selfishness, is wearing. Me and DH have so many times been on the brink of separating. We are so often at loggerheads over this or that or who said what.

Oh gymbob, it does sound really difficult.

You are not doing it wrong. You are parenting as best you can, and you sound as if you have tried lots of things. None of us are perfect. Don't forget dd2 is a teenager too, which is difficult even without dd1.

In the book 'siblings without rivallry' they talk about how being fair and equal does not mean being the same. So dd1 and 2 do not have to have the same expectations or requirements, they have to have a fair balance. I found that this freed me enormously from trying to make sure they do the same thing.

my friend's son has ASD. I remember her talking about backwards sequencing. When a child/adult is overwhelmed by the task given, they can't do it because it is too much and the distance to the end result is too far. Classically we would teach something by expecting them to have a go, or begin/make a start and then help. With backwards sequencing, you start at the end, so that you do the task together and get her to do the last step. Once she is comfortable with the last step then she does the second to last.

thanks steppenmum, you've made me cry, I'm far from perfect.

The book sounds interesting, I will look into that. I already try to do the fair balance bit, but it still causes friction. DD1 can do chores outside much better than inside. DD2 can do inside and hates being outside. But recently when I reluctantly agreed to let DD2 garden (for money), she sat in a corner on her phone for most of the time and tried to charge me £2 for it.

The backwards sequencing is something I haven't heard of before, I would def give it a try. Are you referring to a book your friend worked to?

I don't know of a book. One thing she often says though is that whether or not you have a diagnosis, many of the techniques used for kids with ASD work with all kids. It can't hurt to give them a go and they may actually help. I use one or two of the things she does with her ds with my kids! (but mine are much younger)

Try searching the SEN boards for books with techniques to use with kids with ASD. Thye are much more knowledgeable than I am.

I don't think you should link it in any way to her sister, ask her what she would like to do for her pocket money (assuming she gets it) and let her do that. You don't want it to be competitive.
At 14/15 - I cleaned the bathrooms and made the dinner once a week.
My 5 year and 7 year olds have to tidy their bedrooms and make their beds, pick up towels and open curtains every day to get their pocket money.

They get a basic amount of pocket money not linked to any jobs, then they must choose a job and mark it on the board to get paid for it. They are jobs to keep the house running. they also each have 2 jobs to do daily.but that is all.

DD2 resents doing anything at all as she says it's my work and I shouldn't be making her do anything - she will have enough to do when she leaves home.

I will Google the backwards sequencing and see what comes up x

The backward sequencing can be a very useful method of teaching success. I use it with many children with a range of SEN- I currently use it at home with DS who simply finds learning spelling very difficult. (I give him all the letters except the last one, then the last 3 etc.). Because the child only has to do a small task (to start with) to complete the whole thing successfully it encourages another attempt-rather than teaching 'failure' (as in "I couldn't do it,someone else had to do it for me").

By adding bits on the child finally does the whole thing. Good luck with it.

so for cleaning a room for instance I do all of it and she does the last item for instance? I will give it a go but she can't focus to do anything at all so even doing that one thing will be a challenge.