To be annoyed at Boots or at least the lady who works there

[Chocoholism]

Buying some cow and gate stage 1 formula for my 6 month old and asked if I could pay with points on my advantage card, her response was no you can't as we like to promote breastfeeding.
Err how does giving points or redeeming points when buying a stage 1 formula affect a decision on whether to breast feed or not? And also I could've adhered to doh guidelines and bf to 6 months and then changed to formula.
Is this a silly rule? The amount of milk we get through, and the money I give to boots makes me feel like I am as entitled to receive points as much as anyone else for any other products.

But VAT isn't cut off clothes to encourage you to buy them. It's to help you to buy them. I can't be encouraged to breastfeed, so I should be helped to buy formula.

Exactly. I can't get the help for tall children and you can't get the help for adopted children. Stuff happens.

I agree that the law is annoying, rather like the fact that tax is payable on sanitary towels (a luxury optional item? I think not).

What's even more annoying is my recent discovery that a tin of formula retailed at £13 costs TWELVE PENCE to produce. A formula feeding friend of mine discovered this. Bloody outrageous!

mindthegap

That is indeed bloody outrageous mind!

Yes we have all heard it before Fairy
That is why it is so fucking tedious.

You seriously think that using a play on words including a reference to mass murderers during WWII is nothing to do with the Holocaust?

Bit weird.

I think the law is stupid, I wanted to b.f my eldest but it just wasn't happening he would sleep all the time, never latch on no matter how many times I would strip him down to the nappy as I was advised, nobody would say ok maybe you should try bottle feeding him (because they can't say that) then when it was found he wasn't putting on weight I was made to feel bad for that too. My 2nd son took to it right away with no problem and I kept going until he was one, now he's 5 and keeps boobie grabbing oh dear!

I have a tall adopted child.
Do I win?

But what does that 12p cover? The powder and the tin?
Production costs like electricity, depreciation, wages? Research and development? ??

fairy what else is it being compared to if not the Gestapo? I've heard the words many times before. I'm not shocked and horrified, I'm offended that breastfeeding is being compared to the Gestapo. Why is that difficult to understand? But anyway that is not the point of this thread.

I have a tall adopted child.Do I win?

You do MrsD

(but you still have to pay VAT on clothes and you still can't have points on formula )

Fairyfuckwings

Yes of course "breastapo" is a play on the word "gestapo" . I think it tends to have more to do with enforced views and compliance though. I don't believe for one second that the poster who referenced it meant that pro beast feeders were literally akin to mass murderers. And I don't believe for one second you thought she meant that either.

I think some people (particularly on this site) trawl threads looking for something to be offended about and then tear the offending poster to shreds. She meant well and was making a joke in support of the op. As you well know.

Thanks for flowers

Think it's time for

absolutely fairyfuckwings.
As usual, a very deliberate and cynical massive sense of humour failure!

Formula milk is not allowed to be discounted etc to ensure when someone makes a choice about which formula to feed their baby they know exactly how much it will cost them. In the extreme formula milk was given out/massively discounted (as well as marketing to say that formula was better than breastmilk for babies). When the initial stuff had run out families could not afford to pay out for the formula milk or have the facilities to sterilise the bottles safely. This mean formula milk was watered down or given milk in unsterile containers and babies died/failed to thrive. That's why the laws were passed (and many people boycott nestle). en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nestlé_boycott

But- the person in boots did sound like they were being judgy about it. I ebf til 6 months but I've just gone back to work at 9 months. So my son has some formula. It means I don't have to express. Formula is fab, so is breastmilk. But I'm glad those laws exist.

It doesn't have to be literal to be offensive.

I think some people trawl sights looking for any mention of breastfeeding to be offended at and then use words like breastapo.

I think it has feck all to do with being supportive to anyone.

How was it supportive of the OP. It was referring to posters writing posts about the evils of ff.

Except nobody was.

Lol

Just a joke so no offensive

Surely it is a personal choice (and some just can't) so why should they be penalised.

Laws like this shouldn't exist.

Thats not my take on it Devere. I thought it was in reference to the boots check out person and her (in my view) insensitive comment - rather than comments on this thread.

I'm not saying everyone has to lol, but I can honestly say that when my own doctor used the phrase, when my daughter was failing to thrive due to my complete inability to provide her with adequate nutrition, I did indeed lol. And feel immense relief and gratitude towards him.

I wasn't aware of this. I did bf my DD BUT I am aware that there are many women who cannot ( like a friend of mine who has had a double mastectomy), or have tried and failed.

I appreciate that in theory 'breast is best' may be a great concept but formula is not exactly harmful to a baby in the way that cigarettes and alcohol are. Time for some changes to the law, I feel.

But why do we need a change in the law? So as customers we can have the illusion of paying less and getting money off when we buy formula in the same way as when we buy shampoo?

The only people who benefit from discounts, promotions, earning points and so on are the shop and the manufacturers - they want to get people hooked on their brand with a few low-price deals every now and then so you'll then come back and buy it at full price because by then it's the brand you're used to buying. And part of the 'full' price will go to offsetting the money lost from the discounted periods, introductory offers and so on, so in the end you won't have paid any less.

As for loyalty schemes, why do we think companies let us spend accumulated 'points' rather than cash, at all? Because they get more money in the long run from us, thanks to us paying higher prices to earn the points in the first place, or because we end up tempted into buying things for points we don't really need. In the end, the house shop always wins. If Boots were suddenly told they could have formula purchases earning points too, they'd just tweak the system subtly so that each point was worth a little less than it is now, to allow for all the new points being earned by people buying formula, so they'd recoup the extra money from customers somewhere else.

Also, if the government suddenly said infant formula could be advertised as well as 'follow on' formula then all that would happen is we'd risk prices going up to pay for the new advertising budgets.

Even for people who'll never breastfeed, the law probably works out best in the long run the way it is now. In the long run only the manufacturers will benefit from suddenly being able to promote and advertise more, not the customers.

Hi, I really don't want to continue to argument but I would just like to state that I am wholly in support of breast-feeding, it doesn't offend me and as I didn't have a baby to take to a protest my very angry email to Sportsdirect over their nonsense had to do.

But I feel that that it should very much be a personal choice whether you breast-feed or not, and as we know that some women just can't, they need to feel valued too.

It's most definitely likely that it's my low self esteem but I did feel a bit judged the way she put it to me

So what if she judged you? so bloody what?
Everybody judges something, Nobody goes around with completley neutral thoughts in their head all the time.

Bet you do it about some people at some time. So what? you will have an opinion on something.

All the restrictions on formula promotion are not so much to promote bf or to penalise FFeeders, but 100% to stop the formula companies underhand practices. If they had not gone all out to make profit and wipe out bf in the 60s/70s they'd probably have a lot less rules in place.

As Princess28 said they thought nothing of giving away a certain amount of free samples to people, normally while still in hospital. The intention of this was to undermine breastfeeding initiation and increase their profits. The mothers might use the free formula and then be forced to keep buying it as they could no longer bf. In developing countries many babies died due to their families being unable to afford formula and watering it down, or because no fresh water was available for preparation.

Most of their advertising also directly undermined bf or had non-factual info about the formula. 'closest to breast milk' banned ad anyone?

As you can see today by FF being pretty much the norm in this country these techniques were extremely sucessful.

They are a bit more subtle now, but have already invented 'follow on milk' (totally unnecessary product) and toddler formula purely to allow them to continue advertising their brands on tv/in print. The fact that baby stage 1 milk has almost identical packaging to these other products is very deliberate.

Loyalty cards fall under 'promotion' so unfortunately no points allowed.

It is not meant to penalise or restrict the customer, but the manufacturer.

Feck, that was long! Sorry

If I was buying formula I'd be pissed off at the inflated price due to massive marketing budget.....

The formula companies have a very long track record, across the globe, of promoting ff to the detriment of bf. These laws are part of the a WHO code to protect mums, babies and Breastfeeding. They are very necessary.

I would suggest you read 'The Politics of Breastfeeding' for some background on what formula companies do in unrestricted markets. They invented follow on milk to get around this law!

See you managed to say that in 2 lines stargirl!