To think I have reason to kick up a fuss re school place offer?

[Moleskine]

I am posting on here for traffic and in the hope that someone in the know or with previous experience will come and help with some advice.

We applied for a late school reception place due to a house move. The admissions team told me we would be considered in the 2nd round offers which were supposed to be made mid May. They were delayed and letters went out yesterday. But we still have no school place despite living 50m from our local school and being 1st on the waiting list.

The admissions team told me today that of the 90 places offered, all have been accepted except one. It is a place offered to a sibling so they are expecting it to be accepted too.

However the closing date to accept or decline a school place was 2nd May. So surely we should be offered this place if the other family have still not accepted on 28th May?

To add to this, 2 'special cases' have also come in late and they are to be considered this Friday. I am not sure if this means they are appeals or just higher priority applicants (looked after children or SEN). If successful, they will be placed ahead of us knocking us down to No. 3 on the list.

I am wondering if I should insist on the place that hasn't been accepted yet being given to us? Do I have grounds for this, as as things stand on today's date, the 2 'special cases' have not been decided and we are basically next on the list.

Please come and offer me some advice on this. Am becoming more and more anxious about my son not having a school place come September.

The governors/head/other parents don't have the power to decide that the school can go above PAN. There is legislation on the maximum size of infant classes - the admissions authority are the only people who could decide that there are grounds to admit an 'excepted' pupil, but this happens very very rarely.

Goblin. you are/were a teacher, yet mention 'special needs' in that way? Unless you meant that parents are claiming SN for their child when there aren't any. But that's not easy to get away with these days.
"Undue influence" and "getting the school onside" plays no part in state-run primary schools. The admissions dept aren't "playing God" either; they're administering a system according to strict rules to which they're accountable. It's very unfortunate that there seems to be too few places in desirable schools for the number of people needing them. The rules seem unfair to many, but no one has yet come up with a system that will please everyone, or that's financially viable.

I have an update ... I've just spoken to the deputy head of admissions on the phone. She has confirmed that they have not in fact attempted to contact the family with the sibling place yet! They are 'trying' to do that this week but cannot guarantee it. The person who was calling round is on holiday today.

Deputy Head agreed with me that we would have an offer if that family decline, but they would need to know that before the 2 special cases are heard next week.

So we're left completely in their hands. If they decide to contact this family today and get a 'decline' then we'll have a place. If they fail to try to contact them we'll not even have the chance. I feel so frustrated with this system.

Oh and the deadline for finding us a place is September (so no deadline then). It could even be a few weeks into the term.

Given that it is half term and this is a sibling, unless the family intend to move out of area imminently I wouldn't hold much hope of any change in the situation by tomorrow. Many schools do not require a definite yes, only asking for places to be declined.

Look carefully at their admissions policy. If there is a departure from that in the way they are handling your case, then you can appeal on the basis that they haven't applied the admissions policy correctly. It's one of the few grounds that an Infant Class Size appeal can be won.

It's quite unlikely that they've made a mistake/error in the process, but it's worth checking.

I also asked about the local Catholic school (we used to attend a Catholic church where we used to live but the children are not baptised). This would mean we fit into No. 5 on the criteria list for the Catholic school.

I was told to contact the school directly, and that they couldn't tell me where we would be on the waiting list for that school as they don't know how many children are Catholic ..... ?

Wouldn't hold your breath on that decline. Firstly, I think its unlikely that a family with a child already in the school are going to decline the place. Secondly, I don't think one phonecall during half term week is anywhere near enough effort to contact them. I'm almost certain that an appeals panel would overturn the decision if the place was removed from them on that basis. If the LA still don't get a response from that call, I don't think they are going to see it as an open space.

I just feel that the LA should have made several efforts to contact this family by now. The deadline for accepting/declining places was 2nd May and 4 weeks have passed.

This doesn't relate to OPs predicament but can I just clarify what was said about Scottish system. Yes, most children go to their catchment school but you can also put in a placing request for an out of catchment school - which must be granted if there is space at that school. Also I think that some schools - particularly in cities - do get full and you may not necessarily get your catchment. They certainly don't just start putting huts in the playground to accommodate excess children!

Tiggytape - do you think it's worth writing an email to Dep Head of Admissions just confirming our conversation and urging them to contact the family with a sibling place again? .... Let's say they don't contact them and this family have moved and don't take the place, and it gets allocated to one of the Special Case children, would I have grounds to appeal?

Just to tie strands together here's OP's parallel thread in Primary Education

Thanks for linking my threads Meditrina.

I am going to send an email to admissions later tonight, I'm just making some notes for it now. Going to ask them to be added to waiting lists for most of the local schools though being new to the area we don't them very well.

I also have an older Yr 2 child who is without a school place in the borough (no places available anywhere), and he is being driven back to his old school in our old borough. I am happy to do this until the end of the Summer term but am absolutely expecting a school place in our current borough by September.

Moleskine,

If you have an older Y2 child, entering Y3 in september, it may be that you may have more success via a 'sibling' route:

• Apply to any schools that you would be willing to consider for your older child for Y3 next year (as many schools as you can manage, tbh)
• Appeal immediately when your application is turned down. Y3 appeals are MUCH easier to win than reception ones, because the Infant Class Size rules do not apply. Basically you have to show that the balance of prejudice of admitting a 31st child vs you not having a place means that you should have a place. If the school has managed with >30 in a Year 3 class in the past, that will help your case. Others on here will help you to construct that appeal.
• Your younger child will become a sibling immediately your older child takes up their place. For many schools, this will jump you up the admissions criteria and therefore up the waiting list.

[I did this when moving areas. DD moved from 42nd to 2nd on the Reception waiting list when DS started at the school, and was given a place just before the end of the summer term.]

You should note, though, that because a Y3 appeal can't work until our child is going into Year 3, your younger child may not get sibling priority until September.... which leaves you with some anxiety in the medium term. t would be even better if you could manage to get your older child into Year 2, even for a eek or so at the end of therm (DS did 3 weeks at the end of the summer term, purely to get DD a place)

My older child is current Yr 1 sorry, and will be Yr 2 in September ... we have already been turned down for a place back in March and I did nothing as I fully believed we would be offered by the start of the next school year. Now I can see that's actually quite unlikely!

So should I have appealed straight away? Would it be too late to do so now?

Bother! i had seen a glimmer of hope there!

Since you need 2 places, you should probably look really carefully at sibling policies - which schools have them, and do they work 'up' (ie an older sibling of a Reception child gets a priority) or only 'down' (younger siblings get priority, but not older ones). This may help you to target schools.

I think there is no time limit for appeal, and you should certainly appeal for a place for your older child as a) no place may arise otherwise and b) it may help admission of your younger one. However, you ma need to think about travelling time / distance - if it is under 45 mions - 1 hour travelling time, that is regarded as reasonable for admissions purposes so you will need strong arguments as to why you MUST more your older child to a local school. Alternatively, could you now apply, as a sibling, for a place in your older child's school for your younger one? It may be that you have to make that journey every day in september anyway, so perhaps you should just make it for both children? It will of course depend on how far away you are, but since you are doing that journey daily at the moment I presume it isn't TOO far?

Do the rules for appeal change come Yr 3? (the rule about not having more than 30 in a class? ... )

As I understand it all the schools in the borough have the sibling policy working both up and down.

Gosh I feel quite daunted at the prospect of an appeal for my older child. Where do I start with something like that? Off to check the council's website ... I wonder if just the threat of an appeal will push the admissions team to place our children? ...

Moleskine,

Just to check - I presume that your older child is also already on the waiting list at every possible school? And you are ringing about her place weekly? If not, you should do that as a matter of priority. Putting all your eggs in one basket at one school and expecting something to happen MIGHT work out - as in your younger child might get in from 3rd on the list, might create a sibling priority for their older sibling, and a vacancy might come up - but it is all a bit tenuous so you now need to start being REALLY proactive through waiting lists and appeals.

Nothing to add but I wish you luck in getting both your children in the school you want.

At the state school my children used to go to they had to give us a place as there was no other school within walking distance. This was the case for many people and it is now a 3 classes per year primary school.

Hi, my eldest is on the list for 8 schools. It doesn't sound like many, but about half the state primaries in this borough are faith schools so we can't apply to those with none of our children being baptised.

I have been calling every 2-4 weeks about older child, but Admissions know that our plan was to only move schools at the start of the next school year simply because there are only a few weeks left of the term.

I have just sent an email to head of admissions, deputy head, and the person that deals with in year admissions. I have asked about bulge classes, and additional schools waiting lists for both children. Have also stressed that we have 2 unplaced school children and this is unacceptable.