To think I have reason to kick up a fuss re school place offer?

[Moleskine]

I am posting on here for traffic and in the hope that someone in the know or with previous experience will come and help with some advice.

We applied for a late school reception place due to a house move. The admissions team told me we would be considered in the 2nd round offers which were supposed to be made mid May. They were delayed and letters went out yesterday. But we still have no school place despite living 50m from our local school and being 1st on the waiting list.

The admissions team told me today that of the 90 places offered, all have been accepted except one. It is a place offered to a sibling so they are expecting it to be accepted too.

However the closing date to accept or decline a school place was 2nd May. So surely we should be offered this place if the other family have still not accepted on 28th May?

To add to this, 2 'special cases' have also come in late and they are to be considered this Friday. I am not sure if this means they are appeals or just higher priority applicants (looked after children or SEN). If successful, they will be placed ahead of us knocking us down to No. 3 on the list.

I am wondering if I should insist on the place that hasn't been accepted yet being given to us? Do I have grounds for this, as as things stand on today's date, the 2 'special cases' have not been decided and we are basically next on the list.

Please come and offer me some advice on this. Am becoming more and more anxious about my son not having a school place come September.

They can't remove a place from the child just because they haven't replied by the date set. In fact they are prohibited fro doing so by the admissions code. That date is more of a courtesy to help the LA organise their admissions. Right now that place belongs to the child it was initially offered to. It isn't a free place that you are not being offered.

In order to remove it from a child the LA would have to put quite a lot of effort into trying to contact the parents and get a firm reply. If they suspect the parents will accept the place then they might not do that.

They do have however have to find your son a place by September. It might not be a place that you would choose though.

Oh I see. Well in that case I definitely don't have any grounds to investigate further. That would also explain why places only become available after the start of term when children just don't turn up.

Any place would be better than none at this point! I really hope it's not miles away though ...

The admissions officer at local authority I deal with has told me that although there is a deadline to accept places offered, in practice, they always assume that the parents want the place, unless they specifically reject it. This means that schools (and parents of children on the waiting list) may not know that there is a place available until the children in question fail to turn up on the first day of term. This has happened in the school I work in and I've been in the position of ringing parents on the waiting list just a few days into the school year to ask them if they want a place after all.

X-post with Rafa, must type faster!

Places may come available before then. You are always advised to accept the place you are offered so some of the children who've accepted the 89 places may well be on waiting lists for other schools. If they now get offered a place at their preferred school, they may decide to take it and then reject the place they have already accepted at your school. Which will then be offered to whoever is at the top of the waiting list. It's a sort of process of continuous shuffling.

They have to give them a chance to reply which can mean them contacting them several times. We are still waiting for our secondary place from 3rd March. There is no rushing school admissions it seems.

Thanks for the replies all. I'm not convinced many people will give up their places though as this particular school will be the 'preferred school' for most people. And if you live in the catchment for this one, it's likely you're not in catchment for any other schools.

Our next closest school is over 1000 metres away and catchment for this school is usually about 300m.

I've woken up this morning wondering if I should be kicking up a fuss at this point - emailing local councillors and head of admissions?? Purely I the grounds that we don't have a school place at all.

If I don't do anything, and we still have no place come September I'm probably going to regret not shouting louder about it at the time. I just don't know if it will get me anywhere.

Next closest school is 1km away? As in, less than a mile? Wow. Where I live the schools are much further away from each other, the next closest to my primary school is probably double that (half an hour walk for an adult, so probably about 3/4 hour for a child) then nothing for miles. I thought you were going to say you'd be travelling for miles doing the school/nursery run if you didn't get into this school.

But don't worry too much, I work at a smaller school (50 places in YR) and we've never had every single child turn up in September.

I would get in touch with the head of admissions and find out what is going on.

Yes less than a mile, but we have zero chance of getting a place there. We are 60th on the list. If I thought we would just end up with a place there I would be very happy! MSG likely we will get a place on the outskirts or even a another borough.

If you possibly can, go to the Education offices in person, and ask to see the admissions officer, (be prepared to hang about and wait), and visit the school as frequently as you can. Pester the Governors, charmingly, and don't give up; have all your facts detailed and documentary evidence with you at all times.The parents I know who have won places for their children have been those who have refused to give up, and it is most unfair if you were told the closing date was May 2nd and the place hasn't been accepted yet; you shouldn't be kept waiting while someone else makes up their mind, whatever the reasons. Don't be too accepting of the 'Special case' priorities; ask for evidence; they won't give it to you but you can ask why, if the needs are serious, they weren't accommodated before. It is surprising how many children develop a form of SEN when a school place is at stake. All useful evidence if you need to go to appeal.

The admission authority must make reasonable efforts to contact those who have not responded by their requested deadline. It's not a cut off deadline (like those set out for the applications round nationally), but an administrative convenience for the admissions team.

Removing offered places precipitately is grounds for successful appeal by the originally offered family. The admissions team will not want to risk that and therefore will follow up, taking the amount of time they think reasonable (and appeal proof) for the individual circumstances (which of course may be sensitive and will be kept confidential).

OP the system for allocating schools in England is terrible IMO. It's awful that there are children with no place at all.

Btw our nearest school is 1.5 miles away and the next nearest is about 8 miles away.

I would also ask for the proportion of pupils in the school who live outside the catchment area, and contact your local councillor; this was very much an issue in the recent local elections. If you really want your child to attend this school you must make a fuss and continue doing so; you live close to the school (I am assuming that you are within the catchment area) but your child will be excluded from making friends locally if he goes to a different school. He should not be pushed out by people without local connections who chose the school for different reasons. Admissions Offices do like to play God; make friends with the school and get them on your side. Generally most pupils who want a place can be accommodated during the first year; not ideal but don't give up hope. It is unfair how many parents play the system: 'special needs', children registered with relations, unofficial selection, undue influence; I have seen it all as a teacher and governor, and unfortunately it is the parents who make the most fuss who succeed.

Tiggytape, thank you for your replies to my questions ... so I don't really have grounds to push for a place at this school but that still leaves us with no school place. I feel like I should be doing something and not sitting waiting.

I will probably email the head of admissions tonight with a few questions - when is the deadline for them to tell us where we have a place? how many of those 89 accepted places for for 1st choice applicants? ... Just feel I need more information than this to really know where we stand.

We accepted a place at our local primary school which is having a bulge year and is massively oversubscribed. A month later our DS had a special school named on his statement. So now there is a place for number 1 on the waiting list - although we had to phone the admissions team ourselves as the SEN team hadn't bothered to let them know - so there are reasons why places become available.

It doesn't matter whether they were first, second, sixth or whatever preference. The preference ranking is not a factor in allocating places.

Also the argument "He should not be pushed out by people without local connections who chose the school for different reasons." will fail - he did not get a place because he was a late applicant and the school is full. Schools are simply not permitted to hold back places because someone might move close to the school.

Also, the waiting list has to be managed by ranking in accordance with the entry criteria. If a child with higher priority applies for the school, then they will go to the top of the list.

I know this sounds pessimistic, but OP needs to be realistic about what is likely to be persuasive and what is not.

The admissions authority must however come up with a place somewhere. It is worth pressing them for when they expect to be able to do that.

Are there any get-at-able schools you like (or at least dislike less than the others)? Any schools at all in the area with vacancies?

I like most of the schools in the area but apparently none of them have places currently. The whole borough is short of places every year, it's a mess.

The problem is that every school is over subscribed, so if we have no chance with the school closest to us, we have zero chance with any schools further away ....

There is a Catholic school that's quite close by but this hasn't been mentioned to us and I believe you do have to be Catholic to attend.

goblin, you suggest the OP makes friends with the school and gets them on her side, then slate parents for "undue influence". So why is it sometimes ok to try to influence the school and sometimes not?

And what's with the speech marks here: "special needs" children?

You won't have to be catholic to attend. It will just put you further up the admission criteria. If they have a space they will have to give it to you if you apply. They can't turn you down just because you are not Catholic.

If it hasn't been mentioned, my guess is it's oversubscribed and there are children on the waiting list who meet the Catholic criteria so you will quite far down. Might be worth pursuing to see whether they have a space and what criteria the last child was admitted under.

I agree with the PP who said you can push the LA to find out when they think they will find you a place.