If UKIP are so terrible, why did they win so much?

[balloondoggy]

I didn't vote UKIP - I voted for my local Christians. However, if I were to purely read the comments on Mumsnet and the comments on Facebook re UKIP, I would have thought they would come last; yet they didn't. Why? Are there so many of us on here that are so different from (clearly) the majority?

Now is not the time to worry. There is never a big turnout for the Euro elections because the majority of people (rightly or wrongly) don't see the point because they don't 'see' the result in their daily life.

I do think a lot of people want to go back to being more common market than Euro Parliament, which was the original intention back in the 1970s. I do think a lot of people hate what the Coalition has done, don't think Ed Milliband and Labour are any better, and voted UKIP as a protest vote. Pointlessly. Had any of the three main parties presented themselves well - which none of them did, IMO - I'm not sure there would still have been much difference.

If I am right, then this is a warning shot to the main parties to get their act together and listen to 'middle England'.

The time to worry is this time next year if the pattern is repeated in the general election.

It's not meant to sound impressive: it's fairly clear I would have thought. It's helping people to apply for jobs and training. My intention wasn't to lecture anyone. I didn't even say I was pro employer and anti work/life balance. I was simply stating the reality of how it is out there. Expecting to work 9-5 and have weekends off simply isn't realistic in many industries.I'm not saying I necessarily agree with that, but it is the case.

What's wrong with a flat rate income tax. And take anybody earning say under £20,000 out of tax altogether. Or even £25,000. That would be fairer than continuing to tax people on very low wages.

Bowlers - it isn't hearsay/gossip - there are all well-documented across the webby over the past couple of years, in detail, and represent some of the dangerous people Farage defends by saying 'every party has nutters'. Well, proportionately Nige they are definitely over-represented in your club of Little Englanders.

Geoffrey Clark's views on abortion and disability

he has been suspended but still stood for election. Not hearsay. If UKIP are not an extreme party why do they attract so many candidates with extreme views?

Bit late then notnow. we'd be stuck with them for 5 years.

Oh, and whatever hours/working patterns people have, I'm also very committed to the principle that people have a right to decent treatment and employment rights within the workplace. For instance if you do sign up to a job with regular hours I would be completely opposed to any attempt to shift the goalposts. It's just that a lot of jobs are advertised as flexible working now.

it's fairly clear I would have thought. It's helping people to apply for jobs and training.

Ah you mean 'employability'.

I was simply stating the reality of how it is out there. Expecting to work 9-5 and have weekends off simply isn't realistic in many industries.I'm not saying I necessarily agree with that, but it is the case.

I think we now have the evidence of how people feel about being told to 'suck it up'; We need a different approach.

I also agree with sooty sorry. Emms instead of saying that "The Polish" are taking the jobs, have you questioned why?

They ARE on the same rates of pay, they are still bound by legal working conditions so why would a business choose a worker with a language barrier above one without? There has to be a reason.

I worked for a business with a group of factories, the majority were British staffed but one made "smelly" product. That was almost all staffed by migrants. They tried local staffing but the majority walked by day 2 because they wouldn't work the environment or complained so much that they disrupted the working day. I don't blame them, I couldn't have hacked it, hated even visiting. But other than shutting the place down what could they do?

Ah you mean 'employability'

Sorry: my mistake.

Paul Nuttall deputy leader arguing against the existence of the nhs

Sorry: my mistake.

OYBK - thanks for that link. More scarily, a UKIP spokesman indicates "Geoff is a hard-working local activist who would make an excellent councillor.”

Really, UKIP don't take measures against him but rather support him?

OK so nobody is able to point to any official UKIP literature that has these hysteria-inducing policies in it?

You just wish it were true, so as to justify your own outrage?

I know two people who voted UKIP and told everyone. When I asked one of them (I didn't initially ask who she was voting for, she volunteered it) what she thought of their other policies (environment, education, economy etc) she said she didn't know what they were planning but it was a protest vote, and if it sorted out immigration she was happy.
The other, when I pointed out the shocking record of attendance of the UKiP MEPs (3 out of the 5 worst anywhere in Europe), laughed and said good on them. I said if they wanted to make their point and not attend then they shouldn't claim the salaries but they are taking home 60 grand for not doing anything. She said she didn't have time to find out this stuff but if good ole Nige did what he said with immigration then it was a good vote.

So basically I think UKIP have very successfully created a bit of an immigration band wagon. They've taken something that people were a bit worried, magnified that concern and then said they'll solve it. They've managed to avoid talking about any other policies (like the flat rate tax for example) so people aren't aware of them and think UKIP is for them.

They're clever, and dangerous because decent people have been sucked in without questioning anything they say other than listening to the immigration stuff.

I would love a flat rate of tax. The current system is over complicated, over staffed and under performing.

I'd vote for UKIP at GE 2015 for that policy alone.

"What's wrong with a flat rate income tax."

It was 31% tax on an income over £11 500 - why should low income families pay more tax so that rich ones can pay less?

Bowlers not a 'fundraiser', one of their very significant financial backers. And anyone who believes that parties aren't influenced by their big money backers is a fool.

They ARE on the same rates of pay, they are still bound by legal working conditions so why would a business choose a worker with a language barrier above one without? There has to be a reason.

I should think it's fairly obvious that a fairly large British NMW workforce, still reeling from de-unionisation and the decline (destruction) of the big industries, have been thrown into the deep end of a new, pan-european market of cheap labour and are still gasping from the shock.

I think the least we can do is be polite to them about it all.

TT - the manifesto is sufficiently vague as to make it unarguable, apart from the reliance on hate and fear parts. Nothing anyone has pointed up about expressed intent by UKIP representatives is inconsistent with the manifesto or what we already know about these people.

travellingtoad its because UKIP dont actually have a manifesto. Just a few vague statements and some pretty pictures. Apparently they suddenly decided they didnt agree with their manifesto written in 2010 but had nothing to replace it.

I think we now have the evidence of how people feel about being told to 'suck it up'; We need a different approach

I agree with you absolutely in terms of the EU. People resent having no choice. That needs to be addressed I think by offering a referendum and full information disclosure about the implications of each voting choice. It would stop UKIP in its tracks as well. The message has been sent that not giving people a chance to have a say isn't an option now - certainly not for Cameron if he wants to win the next election.

I think looking for work is a bit different in that people may feel as though they have no choice in terms of working patterns out there but it's not something that can be offered up to a vote. If businesses are trying to survive and keep people employed they'll look at recruiting to cover their needs. That's hard on people who want regular work patterns but these won't always be available.

I think Ukip's rise in popularity comes down to a couple of factors. First, at times of economic hardship, people will look to a radical alternative. Labour aren't providing that and the Lib Dems are dead in the water. So it opens the door to extremists. Secondly, and more worryingly perhaps because it could be a trend that continues to a time beyond our current economic woes, none of the major parties did anything apart from stick to the agenda set by Farage. He talked about immigration, so they all started talking about how they would also be tough on immigration, as they sussed that was where the votes lie. And they do, to a certain extent, but only because none of them were prepared to propose that radical alternative. Also, none of them tackled him about the rest of his policies - scrapping maternity and holiday pay, stopping all planned house-building, cutting education spending etc - despite the fact that these policies will really hurt the people who are voting Ukip, and this should have been hammered home at every opportunity. But instead they all just lay with their bellies up for Farage to tickle them, panting incessantly about numbers of migrants and how awful it all is.

I think looking for work is a bit different in that people may feel as though they have no choice in terms of working patterns out there but it's not something that can be offered up to a vote. If businesses are trying to survive and keep people employed they'll look at recruiting to cover their needs. That's hard on people who want regular work patterns but these won't always be available.

All manner of big businesses are in fact making fat profits (although many SMEs are undoubtedly struggling) - the downturn and migrant labour have been conveniently been used as a mechanism/scapegoat to depress lower-end wages and erode working conditions and when workers protest they are patronised and told to accept zero hours, anti social hours, variable hours etc. Or told they are racist for commenting that employers are hiring large numbers of eastern europeans. I'm not surprised they are disenchanted.

And to keep a bit of perspective on it all, which the BBC seem intent on not doing, the %age increase in voting compared with 2009 is:
UKIP up 10.99, and Labour up 9.67.

Not quite the earthquake that the UKIP/BBC combination would have us believe.