to think it proves lots of people want change

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That ukip are making such huge gains in the elections.
If mnetters could temper their hysteria of screaming racism, I think it is a clear indication that the fundamental principals of the party of no toEurope and no to continued mass immigration are very important to a lot of people

Theres loads of immigrants particularly from pakistan and african nations where I live in the north west, its a Labour area though.

Its also pretty obvious isn't it? The more multicultural a place with more immigrants, the more supportive of immigration it will be. People don't want to shit on their own doorstep, do they?

When I did a few of those who to vote for online surveys, much of what I want is compatible with UKIP.

There is no fucking way I'd vote for them though.

I love having a multicultural society and believe immigration should be judged on the economic gains it brings this country. If it's not good for the economy, we don't do it, much as Australia are.

I do not believe in basing immigration policy on a hatred or mistrust of 'foreigners'!

I certainly do not believe that their damaging national policies (or lack of them) and their misogyny is worth risking for the sake of their pledge to cut immigration and leave the EU.

Unfortunately I think others simply see UKIP as a protest re immigration and the EU with little thought for anything else and little thought that this is seen as an acceptance of racsism and misogyny.

I so wish one of the 3 main parties would take a tougher stance re Europe and immigration but this is sadly lacking.

No shit.

I mean if people wanted to live in an urban area surrounded by people of every nationality they'd go live in London. But they don't. That's why they moved to Essex.

It's much more logical to be anti-immigration if you live in Basildon then in Newham.

I have to say, I'm really struggling with all of this. I abhor UKIP and their xenophobic/misogynistic policies, and would never vote for them myself. However, I also find that the sweeping judgements being made against anyone who does choose to vote for them somewhat sneering and classist.

I probably occupy a bit of a strange position: I'm a pretty well-educated, middle-class, metropolitan voter whose instincts are generally liberal and left-leaning. However, I live in an area that is seeing increasing support for UKIP, and come from a family whose views tend to be much more conservative and reactionary than my own. Working as a teacher in some fairly deprived areas, I'm also at the 'coal face' of popular opinion in many ways.

What I see in my area (Outer London) and among parts of my own extended family is an awful lot of white working-class disillusionment. This specific group of voters - those who haven't quite managed either to 'keep up' with the middle class elites or to escape to the Shires - feels utterly ignored and taken for granted by the mainstream political parties. My unfashionable London suburb has seen recent large-scale immigration and demographic change, largely without the accompanying investment and regeneration that has taken place in more central (trendier, more aspirational) areas. The new immigrants and the existing community have more or less been left to rub along and get on with things with little support or additional funding, and as a result there is real pressure on public services. Many of my neighbours and the parents of the children I teach are manual workers who previously made quite a good living, but are now massively undercut by incoming immigrants. I've tried debating with some of them about how unpalatable many of UKIP's views actually are, but they believe that their livelihoods are at stake, and that UKIP is the one party that is listening.

It's a tough one; I'd love it if Nigel Farage and his horrible views would just go away, but it does irritate me a little that many of those (my own friends among them) who are condemning UKIP voters as 'moronic' are part of the privately-educated, Polish builder-employing metropolitan elites with whom these voters are most disillusioned. And here, I think, is Ed Miliband's challenge: most of my urban professional, affluent, middle class friends vote Labour; most of my suburban, struggling, working-class neighbours feel completely forgotten by them.

Theres loads of immigrants particularly from pakistan and african nations where I live in the north west, its a Labour area though.

define loads.

Its also pretty obvious isn't it? The more multicultural a place with more immigrants, the more supportive of immigration it will be. People don't want to shit on their own doorstep, do they?

of course, immigrants would be more pro immigrant. I have nothing to back up the following claim, but I imagine Brits (of any colour) are more likely to be pro immigrant in London. In London you really see the benefits of it.

My pardons voted UKIP because they agree with much of what they've heard. My in-laws voted UKIP because they 'thought it would be funny'. I'm genuinely not sure which I found worse.

All the focus on UKIP and their massive gains - they don't control a single council. This election has allowed them to form the official opposition on one council.

UKIP formed the official opposition on Lincolnshire County Council. Every single member of UKIP group refused to sign the Council's anti-racism declaration. Nice.

In London you've got:

• immigrants - hard to be anti-immigration
• middle class whites - pro-immigration because it means cheap Polish builders and lovely ethnic restaurants tot ry
• working class whites - a vast number of whom have actually moved out: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21511904 Many of the remainder are actually quite rich thanks to ludicrous house prices, so they don't have a lot to complain about. And presumably self-selecting in many respects as well (the ones who don't like immigrants have already left - those left behind, do).

It doesn't really have that much relevance to people in Burnley or Bradford though.

*pardons = parents

It's undeniably Labour's failing that UKIP are gaining support, they have long ceased to be the party of the working people.

That they galvanise their support so effectively through a "blame the other" (that would be immigrants and women) mentality is fucking terrifying however.

I think a lot of people, particularly poorer people in London, dont see any benefit to it whatsoever. Its practically impossible for anyone to get a council property down there, because of mass immigration. You will find most council properties go to those who arn't actually British.

By loads, I mean a lot. I can try and find the figures but dont want to post my exact town tbh.

writtenguarantee, I agree with you to some extent, but would argue that primarily it's Inner London where the benefits of immigration - the genuine cultural diversity; the economic dynamism; the hardworking, flexible workforce - are most evident.

By contrast, in parts of Outer London (such as my own borough) there's increasingly a mix of disadvantaged white working-class families and struggling recent immigrants, many of whom have arrived from very troubled countries who lack a tradition of education. This, I think, is where community tensions can arise.

"Its practically impossible for anyone to get a council property down there, because of mass immigration"

22 honey, I 'm sorry but where are you getting this stuff from?

Many people want to believe that those who vote for UKIP don't understand what they are voting for because the more terrifying alternative is that they do understand.

though none of them make a peep about all the Brits in other EU countries benefiting from EU free movement policies

Why do you always assume that 'immigration' is about the EU?

I don't see us putting up tent-camps waiting to get into the countries from which the people come who DO put up tent camps in France. Do you?

So why why why DO they all want to come here? Please tell me.

Owllady, I used the word thick quite specifically, not a throwaway comment. It encompasses both a lack of intellectual capacity and an almost wilful ignorance. Both of which seem pretty essential for UKIP voters. Except for BigDog, who is decidedly more intelligent and well-educated than the rest of us, because he told us so, so it must be true.

To think like a UKIP voter demands either an inability to understand the basic interwoven nature of society, or a deliberate choice to ignore or deny it. It also demands an amoral, immature hateful 'them or us' lack and white sort of thinking. Some people voting will be thick, shallow and not able or willingnto really think things through, some will be of higher intelligence than that but have vile, disordered personalities. Some will be thick with vile, disordered personalities. All of them should be ashamed of themselves. Just being gullible enough to believe that immigration is the big problem it's made out to be, or being willing to want to perpetuate that lie is pretty dire.

To the people who make the point that many people who don't consider themselves to be racist have voted UKIP - not thinking you're racist doesn't mean you're not racist in actuality.

therealmary, ever watched that council house programme (How to Get a Council House?), the vast majority of properties were being given to those of south asian, african and eastern european descent. A lot of these people are here because of immigration, and subsequently are taking up all the council properties. Even in my area, a large amount of the council properties are housing people of foreign descent.

Its irrelevant to my stance really, because I havnt even voted for UKIP and tbh couldn't really care less about immigrants, I only care about how any political decisions affect myself and people like me. Besides immigration isnt exactly the biggest problem this country has, its the discrimination of and war against the poor working class of the country that is abundant and increasing these days.

Everytime you hear entitled, privileged middle class people supporting policies and parties that are only going to destroy your life even further and push you more into poverty, it makes you feel that much more shit about yourself and lesser as a person.

I'm ashamed of UKIP and its voters. Today is a horrendous day in our political history. Have we not learnt where bigotry and racism, however it is disguised, eventually leads?

What next? UKIP come to power (god forbid!) and then all 'foreigners' are packed off home? Into ghettos? Killed? Who will define who is foreign? what about third generation immigrants or children who are multi- heritage?

Whoever said history teaches us that history teaches us nothing was spot on

Into ghettos? Killed?

Oh, don't be so dramatic ! Hitler and Idi Amid ARE dead you know.

Yes it sounds completely ridiculous and dramatic doesn't it? This is something that could never happen you think.

Have you ever studied the rise of the far right in 1930's Germany?

OxfordBags Owllady, I used the word thick quite specifically, not a throwaway comment. It encompasses both a lack of intellectual capacity and an almost wilful ignorance

Its odd, because I would associate a lack of intellectual capacity and an almost wilful ignorance with someone who displayed as indoctrinated viewpoints and capacity to be taken in by mealy-mouthed mainstream political rhetoric ("the poor are good, the rich are evil") with someone displaying views such as your own.

But there does seem to a tendency now to follow the "If I say so, its true" school of political thought, as an alternative to actual critical reasoning and proper analysis, when if challenged, an alarming fact such as "x% of X sector of society are adversely affected" is almost hysterically proffered instead.

Its basic intellectual freedom in a democracy to have a range of political choices, and most EU countries have coalition governments. The UK is completely analogous in having been dominated by two very polarised parties for decades with little effective opposition, which isn't healthy. Its also pretty obvious that UKIP would never get into a position of a majority in parliament, so its more outlandish policies will always be kept in check by the law and the parliamentary system and democracy.

However I don't believe in censoring people's views and UKIP isn't that right wing compared to some parties in other countries. I also don't see why strongly left wing parties are seen as harmless when left wing politics is associated with by far the biggest majority of political disasters leading to revolution to overthrown them in recent times.

In summary, I would say there is a place for UKIP in UK politics as long as it does not break the law, because we live in a democracy and voting trends indicate the majority of the UK population feel disenfranchised.

UKIP represents the concerns of a minority of people

That's right, Chelsy. My views are entirely a result of indoctrination. I have no ability to think for myself, or look into UKIP and what it stands for. Because I share views with other people, this is a result of us all being brainwashed. If you knew my academic and professional background, what you wrote about me would be abso-fucking-lutely hilarious.

Saying UKIP voters are thick, or whatever, is not the same as trying to stop them having the choice to vote for them. Thinking it's a cunty choice isn't denial of choice. UKIP not being as right-wing as parties in other countries doesn't stop them being a bunch of right-wing freaks. But I'm probably seeing a fluidity here that's just an offshoot of my indoctrination

PS I am a Socialist. I'm far to the left of mainstream political thinking, duckie.

My dad voted UKIP.

I am uncomfortable calling him a 'thick fucking cunt'. Maybe because when I asked him why, he gave me a very articulate and passionate response about how utterly let down he felt by all the major political parties.

You ignore that response at your peril. I have a lot of sympathy with it.

And calling him a 'thick fucking cunt' may not have the effect you desire, in that he suddenly realises how wrong he is. Calling people 'thick fucking cunts' usually serves only to alienate them further.