To believe a degree does not make one clever...

[KeepOnKeepingOnAndOnAndOnAndOn]

I have a standard degree from a rather prestigious uni (this ain't no stealth boast btw!) and I still feel I am not half as intelligent as many i meet. People assume I will be, because of said degree.

I would like some sort of a career, possibly in teaching, but fear I am no longer clever enough (baby brain/ too much drink and drugs as a wayward teen etc etc )

When I speak of this I often get the answer, "But you have a degree..."

My degree was pretty easy and I did the bare minimum to get by. It doesn't fill me with confidence at all about my levels of intelligence :/

I don't have a degree, but I do have a Post Grad level diploma in Journalism, having got on the course as a mature student based on ability & experience.

Our tutor actually told us that those who had degrees were at a disadvantage because they had learned to write in a certain way (essay style) which wasn't what would be required of them in this field.

I'm sure you've got it in you to do a PGCE - maybe the timing is just not quite right at the moment, or perhaps you need to do a course 'for fun' first to get your confidence back.

Reading some of the posts here, your humility is the obverse of ignorance, it is what keeps you alive to learning. I can quite understand how you people got good degrees as you are open to knowledge.

a degree teaches you knowledge (some of which you forget!), but wisdom is something we all work on our entire lives, regardless of education.

Knowing a tomato is a fruit = knowledge
Knowing tomato shouldn't be in fruit salad = wisdom.

Overall a degree should teach you skills you can always use, facts can be looked up and new research can be re-read, but knowing how to get that information is a skill many people don't have before they go to university.

what I am trying to say, it's not about what you know, but recognising what you don't know and knowing the way to find that information out.

Knowing a tomato is a fruit = knowledge
Knowing tomato shouldn't be in fruit salad = wisdom.

Tucking that one away for a rainy day.

I think a degree shows work ethic more than anything else. I'd rather have a stupid employee that worked hard for me, than a smart one that was lazy.

Don't under estimate the value of honest work.

I have a degree in a trade skill. You don't need high intelligence for those, but I'd say I'm still pretty clever. At the very least I'm good at what I do. But I also know that I there's a lot about my field I don't know and keep picking up new things. :)

A sign of an intelligent person is that they know they don't know. Stupid people are the ones that think they know everything.

A sign of an intelligent person is that they know they don't know. Stupid people are the ones that think they know everything.

So true Princess, and these are also the ones that are most dangerous to have in a workplace because they are incapable of learning from their mistakes (because they never make any of course).

YANBU. It was just the expected thing to do for the most part in my case I think.

I think you can be amazingly clever and have a degree.

You can be amazingly clever and not have one.

I think a degree is a red herring when it comes to being 'clever'

Gaining a degree (however) shows the ability to stick at something diligently for long term gain, that can never be dismissed!

I'm also of the opinion that emotional intelligence is like gold.

I wish more people I know I had been blessed with that.

Thanks everyone. All the comments have been so uplifting. It is nice to know that many people with degrees also recognises they are not particularly intelligent. I guess you can get by in life with hard work and dedication , which having a degree reflects.

I think I will do a wee course whilst being a sahm, this will boost confidence and retrain my mind. I have another baby on the way and would like to take another few years out to focus on motherhood. After this, I will be closer to thirties and hopefully more confident with age !?

zh I definitiley have that imposter syndrome! Must be very common if it is recognised as a syndrome.

I'm half way through a degree as a mature student. It is time consuming to learn the content and hard work to parrot it back out in a format acceptable to the tutors, but I would not say it requires exceptional intelligence to get top grades.

Also, I started off my degree at a 'good' uni and for family reasons had to transfer to my local 'mediocre' ex-poly. Having done time at both I really can't see where the snobbery comes from, the standard of work required is very similar. In fact in some ways it is more of an achievement to do well at the 'mediocre' uni because the there is not as much support or as many resources on hand.

YANBU. A degree simply demonstrates you have committed to something for 3-5 years and worked hard. It does not demonstrate intelligence or even suitability to take a particular job/career pathway.

I have a degree, and I'm a right ditz most of the time.

Many of today's degrees are no indicator of cleverness. If 50% of youngsters go to university, the laws of maths indicate that many of them are of average or slightly above average intelligence.

I am so ancient that when I went to grammar school in the 50s , O-levels were targeted at the top 20% of children. Of these a small proportion went on to University, and that proportion had to be 'clever'. Of course many kids from poorer families missed out for various reasons, but generally speaking, with plenty of exceptions, graduates from those days are likely to be cleverer than today's.

Having taught at a Russel group university, the amoun tof knowledge required to scrape a pass or even a low i:ii doesn't even require that much knowledge.

Nor does it require you to construct a sentence peoperly as I have proved above.

Degrees are just two a penny. Labour removed any and all prestige from them by creating so many "extra" subjects. Hence the back lash. A degree now just is as average as finishing school. That really just how it seems.

Labour aren't wholly to blame, the Tories started the process by turning the Polys into Universities, although Labour did set an absurdly high level of young people going to university. Aldo, the government doesn't dictate to a university what courses do or don't tun at an individual university.

People going to a decent University are generally from better off backgrounds where education is valued. Just because you don't have a degree doesn't mean you're no more intelligent than someone that does.

I graduated last year as a mature student with a first from an ex-poly uni. I'm reasonably bright, bit certainly not clever in the academic sense, but I am determined and a bit of a perfectionist which is probably why I did so well. Having a degree has not made me any more self-confident though and I'm struggling to find a better job.

With so many people with degrees these days, having one is not necessarily a measure of intelligence, more a sign of a long-term committment to a goal.

I agree minnie re the finishing school thing. My ds is home from university a fair bit always with a few mates in tow and tbh if you listened in on them you would be very worried It is just the next step after school for most middle class kids who have no idea what they want to do but by the same token have no immediate need to work from a financial POV.

A degree doesn't make you clever, but I think you have to be reasonably intelligent to get a degree.
However, loads of super intelligent people don't have degrees because they had no interest in going to University/didn't have the opportunity to go/are very clever but useless at concentrating, note taking and sitting down to study.

A top degree (2:1 or first) in an academic subject from a prestigious university is an indicator that you have a good intellect which you are capable of applying.

You will need job-specific skills development to be able to apply that intellect in any area I can think of. So lawyers need to complete law school and on-the-job training. Similar for doctors. I have developed almost all the skills I use in my work while doing that work.

I know that I am very clever, but I also know that others are better able to apply their cleverness to work. It's about the whole package, really. I do find the work I am doing fascinating, worthwhile and intellectually stimulating, and I like my colleagues, so I figure I'm in a pretty good place.

Iknow that I am very clever, but I also know that others are better able to apply their cleverness to work.

And yet so modest and self effacing with it.

Intelligence can help you to succeed in life but it's probably not sufficient and may not be all that necessary.

Conscientiousness and the ability to defer gratification will go a long way.
Entrepreneurship, the ability to spot a good opportunity and turn every situation to your advantage.
I don't think you can get a degree in that, can you

Agree with lots if the comments above. I took a BSc and an MSc in the 1980s in engineering, but as soon as I started work I realized that all my book knowledge and understanding was just the tip of the iceberg - lots if practical and business skills (man management, business politics, project management, financial control etc) had to be learned on the job.

I have friend who was a very senior HR person in one of the top banks. She had a maths question paper that she got the senior execs to complete (they all had excellent Oxbridge degrees in maths), lots of questions that you had to work through in a set time and see how far you got. Both my DH and her DH did way better than the bank guys - might explain why the UK banks got themselves in such a mess.

I also graduated last year with a First from a 'new' university, at the age of 52. I'm now studying part-time for an M.A.

I completed a Foundation degree during the first 2 years, so my grade for the Honours degree depended entirely on the work I did during my final year. I only worked hard for the last 6 months, particularly on my dissertation. I had several HUGE advantages over my younger fellow students - I already 'knew' loads of stuff about my subject (history) which I'd learned just by being alive and intellectually engaged with the world for so long , I actually read books all the time for pleasure, I worked as a professional researcher for many years so I'm bloody good at finding stuff out and sourcing sources (!) and I can write stylish and coherent essays.

I've been invited to submit an article to a peer-reviewed academic journal on the strength of my undergrad dissertation and have given one public lecture on the same topic, with another in the pipeline.

I don't regard myself as 'intelligent' though. Studying for a degree has simply enabled me to consolidate my intellectual interests with the skills I've acquired through working for 30 years.

Compos - how is what you have quoted immodest?

I was using "clever" to refer to intelligence as measured by IQ, which as the thread has already made clear is not necessarily the same as actually being any good at anything anybody would pay you for.

Did somebody/something upset you today?