To be angry with my mother over her attitude towards lies she has told me

[theworkofsatan]

I have previously posted about my mother but I need to know if I am being unreasonable now before I speak to her.

I'm getting married and I lost my short form birth certificate (which is the only birth certificate I have ever seen), so I ordered a copy from the GRO.

It arrived on Friday and I thought it was a bit strange that my birth was not registered for four years after my date of birth. There was also a note on the certificate that said that the certificate had been issued upon the order of the registrar, which again was a bit strange.

So I messaged my mum about it and she told me that she and my dad (who died when I was 13) were never married and that she was not prepared to talk about it on the phone. She said it was complicated and that they were not together when I was born. She said I would have to wait until July (when she comes over from Spain - she lives there).

As far as I knew my parents were married. She said they were married and she had his last name.

I don't know why this has upset me so much but I think it's a combination of the lying (for 40 years), or whether it's because she is so bloody judgemental about me and my life. Every time I see her she criticises me and my choices in life, my parenting skills etc.

I have now had two days to think about this and I am feeling quite cross about the whole thing. Am I overreacting?

I would wait till you know all the facts. It's pointless getting wound up before knowing what's what

Re: birth cert: How long did you get to register a birth 40 years ago? Might she have excluded your Dad at first then had it reissued with his name on it?

Re: mock marriage: Very odd, but perhaps practical 40 years ago when mothers not in a relationship with the father were treated poorly? When they resumed a relationship, maybe it was easier to say they were married and it just spiralled out of control.

A thought: I am very familiar with my parents' wedding photos. Were you never curious (I am assuming they never went so far as to mock those up?)

Lots of people pretended to be married- 40 years ago people were a lot less relaxed about children born "out of wedlock" than they are now. And I presume that a new birth certificate was arranged to include your father when they got together?

There's obviously history- otherwise I suspect this stuff wouldn't bother you so much. It sounds to me as if it was done to protect you from judgemental types.

If it helps, my Dp discovered quite recently (he's 50) that his mother is actually two years younger than he always thought- he was actually born two days after her 15th birthday, not her 17th. She, and her family , had hidden that from everyone else for 49 years because of the shame of her getting pregnant at 14.

YABU

I'm not cross over the fact that they weren't married. I know that things were different then and I understand why unmarried mothers might be treated poorly.

I'm mostly angry about the lying if I'm honest and the fact that she is so judgemental about other people, particularly me and other members of the family. I'm also annoyed that she will not discuss this on the phone and I have to wait until the end of July to find out the facts.

The way she worded the message was that she had dreaded me finding out, which possibly means that there is more to this than meets the eye. She also said that they were not together when I was born and that there are "reasons" for this.

My dad was married before so I would suspect that the "reasons" she is talking about were that he was still married to someone else.

My grandmother found her birth cert after her mother died and discovered she was actually a year older than she thought she was. Her mum had lied to her about the date she was born.

My parents didn't get married until I was nearly 3. They still maintain the pretence that they married 10 months before I was born. I know they are lying, I tried years ago to get a copy of their marriage certificate for a surprise gift for them - framed, etc - so I found out then. Then when I went for a passport, one of the questions was when did your parents get married. That was fun

My late grandmother found out only when she was getting married that the name she had had her whole life was not the one on her birth certificate!

I think that there are some very strong emotions from a lot of older people around the whole issue of children while unmarried . I agree that it is best to wait and talk to her, this is likely very uncomfortable - painful? shameful ? (not really but in her mind) which might be affecting her.

Focus on the fact you are getting married and all your happiness. You can put your mum and all that to one side and deal with it later.

I wouldn't like being lied to or having to wait on someone else’s timetable for an explanation - but there might be a good reason you won't know for sure till you get the explination.

Births, deaths and marriages are public records so with some information - location, names I believe you can look up so if you contact the registrars they might be able to help you find relevant records?

OK, so it's seems highly plausible that your mother became pregnant when your father was still married, and you were (re)registered at four years, when your parents were then in a relationship, which they pretended, for ease, was a marriage. Seems reasonable, and, as you say, not overly problematic for you?

So, the problem is obviously that this has been hidden and is now being "revealed" in a way that causes the most upset and drama, but also allows your Mum to put her ducks in a row. If she's spent a lifetime looking down on you and others, she won't be keen to expose her own "immorality" and "shame". She's scared of being found a fraud, of being less than perfect? I'm not suggesting that is worthy of sympathy from you, but perhaps if you phone her and state your conclusions and that you won't judge, you can be a better person? (No idea if the history between you would allow that).

My late grandmother found out only when she was getting married that the name she had had her whole life was not the one on her birth certificate!

My grandfather used a different name to that on his birth certificate - he hated that name taken from his alcoholic father's family traditions. It wasn't a secret though he never formally changed it everyday life his prefernce was used.

MaidOfStars In England it was then and is now 42 days.

OP Please don't it spoil your joy. Good luck.

MaidOfStars In England it was then and is now 42 days

Thanks for info. Can you apply for a birth cert to be reissued at a later date if, for example, you want to include a father's name on it (whether the father was unnamed originally)?

Maid - Precisely. You have managed to articulate what I can't. I couldn't give two hoots about the not being married. I would imagine that this was reasonably common at that time.

She is very critical about other people. For example after my dad died I went off the rails a bit and she still brings it up now (I'm 40 now so this was a number of years ago). In fact she brings it up almost every time she visits.

Last time she came over she told my DP that he wasn't my son's dad. This is true but she was quite nasty about it. My son is 9 and my DP has been in our lives for six years. She was also very rude to both of us last time she came over, refusing to give more than one word answers to things we were asking her. It was very hard work. She criticised things about our home, my parenting skills (or lack thereof), I could go on and on but I won't. It's too long and boring.

I just find it a bit rich that she has been dreading me finding out but that I can wait for over two months to speak to her about it.

Do you think it's possible your dad is not actually your biological father?

Well, maybe something that's obviously such a big deal to both of you two is appropriate be to talked about in person. I'm not sure I'd want to disclose a big secret like that over the phone.

My grandma didn't know she was two siblings until after her grandma died and her father was allowed to get into contact with her again. (Her mother forbade contact, it wasn't court ordered or anything)

thatstoast - It has crossed my mind that my dad might not be my dad. They re-registered my birth in July 1978. My younger brother was born in October 1978. She might have wanted everyone to have the same surname. Where it says her name it says "First name Surname NOW Father's surname".

Also, where the informants are supposed to sign (ie mother and father), the handwriting in both cases is that of my mother.

I just think it's all a bit odd. She won't discuss it on the phone. I have tried to call her.

My birth cert was registered 2 years after I was born the month my parents got married

I don't know if I was registered before that and name changed but my full cert has a date 2 years after my birthday on

My mam was 16 and my dad 15 when they had me I guess they got me a new birth cert in my parents name. IDK I've never asked them why

Perhaps this bitterness stems from negative experiences she had when in a non-traditional family set up at the time (whatever those might have been), and she can't get past how 'easy' she perceives it's been for you having a non-nuclear now.

Complete supposition, and I'm not assuming that your family life is any more easy or difficult than anyone else's. Just that some people cannot let go of bitterness and anger.

I would rather have the facts sooner rather than later, as it would help me try and make sense of the conflicted relationship that the two of you have, esp. around and about the time of your father's passing. But it's probably best to talk about it in person. At least it allows you to prepare for the conversation, especially if she can be a manipulative person, you might need to be fairly firm in your questioning.

Apparently it is not possible to obtain the previous certificate if the birth has been re-registered. It replaces the old record completely so I will never know whether my dad was put down as the father, or whether it was father unknown.

The reason for the re-registration is not because my parents got married. My mother has stated that they never married. I thought that at first, that maybe they had got married after I was born and that was the reason for the re-registration, but it isn't.

Sorry, I meant "If I were you, I would rather have the facts sooner rather than later...", that sentence went a bit skew-whiff.

Yes it sounds exactly like the procedure for re-registering a birth following the marriage of the parents. I have seen this with EXH's two birth registrations (before and after his parents married).

Except that she says that they were never married. Which makes me wonder about bigamy or regisraion fraud (telling registrar they had married when in fact they hadn;t).

Sorry OP the two month wait would drive me screwy too.

I would rather have the facts now because two months is a long time to wait. If it was as simple as that they never married then why all of the cloak and dagger and her messaging me that it's "complicated".

She knows that my life has been quite hard (ten years in a violent marriage) and it's only recently that I have felt happy and stable in my life. She has no reason to think it's been easy for me.