to be annoyed at friend'd dc behaviour?

[Thepaintedveil]

Been friends for a few years-we all have dcs of varying ages. My friend-lets call her A has a child who is a wee bit challenging at times. Nothing too bad but sometimes will lash out,scream,tantrum etc-age 3.

Friend has a tendency to imo pander too dc far too much. For example if we meet for coffee will let her dc run around the shop,play with the very expensive coffee machines on display,play around with fire extinguisher etc. I don't feel comfortable with this behaviour but let it go as not my place to say anything.

The other day we met for coffee and I brought another friend too-friend B. Friend B had literally just sat down when friend A's dc hit her-delibarately not an accident. Friend B asked friend A's dc not to do that but friend A did'nt really do much-just kind of said oh well sorry and carried on chatting.

A few minutes later he did it again. Friend A then decided to leave but still did'nt really apologise to friend B. Today I messaged friend A about something and just mentioned in passing that it was a good thing that friend B was'nt too hurt-totally light hearted of course.

She has now taken the huff with me and told me I have no right to judge or tell her off!! Sorry its so long but am I bu to be pissed off that she let's her dc behave like this?

at "just excited" excusing both bratty toddlers and overbearing grandparents!

I did'nt use the expression "brat" but I certainly think this comes under brattish behaviour. Of course all children have their moments and boy do they know how to pick them! But surely its part of our job as parents to deal with such moments and not just look on indulgently or pass it off as "excitement"?

Again it is my friend that always wants to meet for coffee not me. Also perhaps worth noting that said dc's family are not that keen on babysitting due to the behaviour so I am not the only one who it annoys

painteddevil my post wasn't aimed at you.

If you have genuine concerns then of course you should raise the issue, it's the way you went about it, you have to admit it was judgey and unhelpful. Of course she's gonna be defensive. Like I say maybe she's sinking and needs you to be understanding and helpful.

If her parenting techniques adversely affect you and/or your dc then you may want to rethink the friendship. If they don't have any direct impact on you then I would suggest that the way she deals with her children is no-one elses business, whether you agree with it or not.

Bratty toddler?

What a horrible way to describe a 3 year old child.

Well, I would have suggested seeing a lot less of this lady but I daresay that won't be necessary now.

"I was a bit annoyed that she made no real effort to stop him doing it again or to really apologise." I think the 'real' and 'really' in this sentence are code for 'as I would have liked it'. She said sorry the first time and removed the child the second.

I have an 'excitable' utter Tasmanian Devil child and even with boundaries, hours of daily exercise, no junk food, consistency and all the rest, she can be a pain. I know the parents of biddable children judge and scowl even though I see that they do much less 'work' than I have to. I don't tell them that she has some language issues and that I am working as hard as possible to make her happy AND well-behaved.

I can't ever meet anyone for coffee in a normal cafe. Soft play or nothing here.

some children are just more challenging - it's funny how those more challenging children often have parents that don't discipline them.

I think it's a bit odd that she can't openly talk about the issue. My friendship group would as all our kids have their good and bad points.

She probably doesn't talk openly about it for fear of being judged.

Why are you friends with her - you've made it clear she is a crap parent and you are much more skilled at it. She will know what you think of her so it'a best you go separate ways.

- it's funny how those more challenging children often have parents that don't discipline them.

Sadly this is so true. I had to leave a cafe recently when a mother found her child's refusal to sit down and not run about after banging a table and upsetting all our (hot) drinks really funny. We were soaked.

"She's SUCH a diva!"

Not 'sorry' or 'that's what happens when you run around, please sit down' or even 'please let me pay for your drinks.'

I think you were right to point it out. I think there's a works if difference between genuinely struggling some days and consistently viewing the whole world as one big playground for your precious DCs.

Stop apologising to her. If she can't her head around the fact that her child isn't excitable but is behaving badly (because she allows him to) then that's up to her. You do not have to out up with it.

I don't think yabu to expect your friend to discipline her child however I do think you went about it the wrong way.

Does she do that no discipline parenting trend? I came across this a few months back when my sisters baby was bitten by another persons toddler whilst we were at the park. The mother told her toddler that biting hurts. That was it, no punishment or apology. My sister told me she runs the local gentle parenting group and dosen't believe in discipline. Children are capable of self policing .

Your friend A did deal with this -she left. You have no idea what she said to her child after she left.
Did you want the satisfaction of the child being told off publicly?
YABU to have made a dig at her, she was probably already embarrassed

I do not completely agree with the 'they have parents who dont discipline'
Yes some dont but i do.
She has been like this since before she could crawl
In fact i may be too strict.
No you cant do this. Dont do that.
No was a very early word
I actually think i get a look from others of you poor thing toddler tantrums are awful.
Some kids are placid- be grateful if you have one.
Yes parenting makes a hyge difference, but so does the childs personality.
I keep working on it though. I just know what her limits are, restrain for things like drs, restaurants etc
My PIL said of course they know how to look after her theyve had kids... Well im sure she is very different to any of their laid back kids.
What is so unfair is me and oh were placid kids, but my sis was nightmare, her DD is placid, typical

I have friends, of a formally very biddable, quiet, gentle child. The Mum used to tell me she knew how hard I had it with DD, who was a lot of work. She said that DD would always be OK because she was a kind child, just very active and loud. She was right, DD is improving.

The Dad used to go on and on about how their child was 'good' because they had boundaries and he disciplined her and on and on. She hit three, went full on three-nager and he is flummoxed, can't understand and has no skills. Now he has shut up about his fantastic parenting because he now understands that it is all compromise.

You want them to understand boundaries, but don't want to constantly stifle and criticize them. I don't hit and think shouting is counterproductive. Rewarding good behaviour, leaving when not, consequences, lots of love but sometimes it doesn't work.

It is not that 'spirited' children have parents that don't discipline but that sometimes the constant barrage of 'no' 'don't touch' don't run' 'don't shout' don't play' 'don't grab' 'don't cross you arms and pout' gets wearing, for child and adult. I know I manage and helicopter my child ten times as much as parents of quiet, shy children. It is not always lazy parents, sometimes it is that other people have easier kids.

MrsTerry I couldn't agree more. My eldest was a nightmare as a toddler, constantly lashed out and struggled to control his emotions. Lots of people tried to give me "advice" on how to deal with things, all of it unsolicited. I was strict with him, we had clear boundaries but to no avail. It seemed to me that unless I was smacking my child into submission then I was being too soft. It turns out (and didn't get a diagnosis for many years) that he has sensory processing disorder and cerebral palsy, both of which cause emotional issues.
Sometimes parents can appear as though they are not diciplining their child because they know that certain methods don't work or actually make things worse. I quickly learnt that shouting at my son and trying to dicipline him during a meltdown was counterproductive. He neede space to calm down. However, if his behaviour had affected someone I always apologised, I can't understand why one wouldn't.
Incidentally I ds2 is now at that age. I am far "softer" with him and he is (for now) the most polite, chilled out toddler ever. It would be very easy for me to congratulate myself on that success but actually I know it has very little to do with me - It's just the way he is.
That said, I don't deny the existence of children who are allowed to run riot through lack of discipline. The parents can sometimes seem to think it's funny or just not care. But whenever I see this I remind myself that I actually don't KNOW what their issues may beand there could well be more going on than meets the eye. Besides which, it's generally none of my business.

My eldest son was a complete nightmare at that age. Honestly, he was devilspawn. I recall one dreadful family picnic where I turned my back just long enough for him to throw gravel at DH's aunt's face. Mortified isn't even the word. I mumbled sorry and we left pretty much straight away.

What made the whole thing - and his behaviour in general - even harder to cope with, was other people's shitty attitudes. Sneery, snidey comments blaming my crap parenting for the way he acted out. Did they know I was run ragged with trying out all the discipline measures I could find? Did they know he saw a play therapist every week to try and deal with his aggression? No. They just saw fit to look down on me for not managing him better. Fuck that.

Having a hurricane toddler is mentally and physically exhausting, and it's very isolating, particularly when your closest friends judge you just as harshly as a stranger would.

YABU. Give your friend a break and be kinder to her.

Another in agreement with MrsTerryPratchett. I think sometimes parents of laid back children think they are doing an amazing job at parenting, and that those with less compliant children are lazier/less skilled parents, whereas in reality - children are very different, their behaviour is not all down to how attentive the parenting is.

Yanbu to not like it but something should have been said at the time not jokingly on text

Ummm you said " No sen btw"
All I can say is how do you know? Because a lot of SN (not SEN which only really happens at school) is not diagnosed until after 3 years of age.
Do you know what that child is like out of public sight. Is it one who has a full on meltdown from the word NO? Is running around a bit and fiddling actually "good" behaviour?
I think leaving once the child had hit a second time could be very good parenting.

I think you're asking for trouble taking a lively 3 year old for anything but a really quick coffee. Perhaps you could try something where he's not so bored next time?

You judged, she got the hump, not sure what you expected really?

This makes me laugh tbh

You took kids for coffees?? Little kids? Why? Hot drinks, no toys, bored toddlers. Good idea.

You say your friend didn't deal with it but she left early owing to her toddlers behaviour. That is dealing with it.

You sound like a really judgy friend, sorry but you do. Your friend obviously has a more hard work kid than you. Stop judging her parenting and be her friend.