to stop music lessons for DD (12)

[pippiLS]

She's been playing piano and violin since she was 5/6 and has got to grade 5 level in each instrument. Her work ethic around practice is virtually non-existent. I mistakenly thought that by this stage she would have developed a routine to keep up with her instruments but she just doesn't make time to play them.

Has anyone made this decision for their DC?

She has a music scholarship at an Independent school worth 15% of the fees but I'm trying not to let that influence the decision.

I have the same problem 3 times over! My DD had a pause from flute but carried on piano-she was just going to play flute and enjoy it but has barely touched it since. Dragging her through grade 5 piano now. My DS1 has just been through grade 5 piano and was disappointed when he missed a merit by a couple of marks!! He is due to do grade 5 sax now but is still not practising-it's almost as if they think they can just absorb the music and breeze through an exam! DS2 has passed grade 3 piano aged 10 and is starting drum exams. I guess the frustrating part is when you know they have ability but they just won't make the effort! We have tried periods of just fun playing-not working towards an exam-and tbh as there is nothing to aim for they practice even less (if that is possible!). The only thing to do is keep nagging! I gave up an instrument age 12 and have now been learning piano alongside the kids-wish I had carried on with music as a kid. They will look back in about 20 yrs time and appreciate the fact they were made to stick at it!

When I was your dd's age I had a similar issue and wanted to give up piano lessons. Despite much weeping and wailing, my dm forced me to continue and always said I'd thank her for it when I was older.

Much as I hate to admit it, she was right. Playing the piano to a good standard (grade 8+) is an invaluable skill to have that will open many doors as a grown up. Through playing the piano, I've made friends, made money and travelled to places I never thought I'd go. I would really think hard about letting her give up.

This might seem counter-intuitive but have you thought about letting her learn a third instrument? I started playing another one when I was getting bored with the first two, and the process of learning something completely new from scratch actually made me enjoy the instruments at which I was more accomplished, as I could more easily feel and appreciate how far I'd come with them. I still find plenty of time for schoolwork, extra curricular activities etc too. Maybe not a solution for everyone, but it might be worth a thought?

*found, not find, obviously!

As a music teacher we see this all the time, I would count the time that she is playing in school ensembles as practice-she's playing her instruments and improving her sight reading, counting etc during those sessions. Ask the music teacher if she could play piano in an ensemble? My music teachers made me play the piano in junior orchestra, when I was in the 6th form, and it really helped. I got to grade 8 distinction in two instruments before leaving school, and then went on to do a music degree and I NEVER did enough 'practice' at home, but all the hours spent playing in ensembles taught me a huge amount. My piano technique is pretty shocking, but I can sight read pretty much anything, which is very useful in my current job. (Can you just work out this song from the recording? Thanks very much. Yes, for next lesson!)

You should definitely not stop the lessons. Grade 5 at 12 is very good and she is probably very near a sort of break through in standard which could change her life. I don't mean necessarily be a pro - I mean once she is a really accomplished musician, she will be for ever, and it will stand her in great stead.

I can play the piano and other instruments and every time I do, a million people in the room say "I had piano lessons till I was 12 / 13 and then stopped and I so wish I had carried on". Don't let your dd be that person.

Instrument practice takes up time but it is actually very good for you, in a meditative way. It undoes a lot of the damage that daily stresses do to your wellbeing and equilibrium. Even boring things like scales and arpeggios are soothing. I think life is very stressful for teenagers and this is a way of managing stress, as some people use sport or running.

How to get her to practice?

• is she tired in general? Does she struggle to fit everything in? This is something to look at - can you re-jig the schedule so that she feels a bit more relaxed?
• if she is not a morning person forget the morning thing
• do a deal where something nice comes with or after practising. Not like a bribe but as part of the routine, that tea and cake comes after practice, or something like that
• is there anything uncomfortable about the room? Is it warm enough, do little siblings wander in and out being annoying, can you make it feel like a calm and sophisticated and welcoming space?
• can she do it instead of something else that she doesn't like? If she is in general overloaded, can something else be taken out?

I can remember as a dumpy (I wasn't really, but I thought) teenager watching someone who was amazing at gymnastics do backflips for fun at a picnic. I was dying of envy at being able to just perform and play like that, for the pleasure and the fun of it.

It dawned on me a few years ago that to some my apparently effortless musical skills are just as enviable and exotic. They are not effortless but just as that girl spent her childhood practising gymnastics, I spent it practising music, and it's in the bank now, forever. I wouldn't swap it for anything. Everyone says that. I just don't know how you can make it mean something to her

I'm so glad you've decided not to stop her lessons.

My DD didn't practice much until she was quite a bit older than your DD but played a lot at her specialist school in various groups/ensemble etc and went to loads of concerts/recitals etc.

She has still managed to get a place on a BMus course (principal study piano) at a conservatoire!

Sometimes they just need a bit more time to mature.

It's frustrating to think how good they might be by now if they did practise though.

Pay her to practise. I'm joking I'm not!

It sounds to me like she’s doing a lot of practice actually. You say she plays in an orchestra and chamber group, has lessons in school and performs in competitions. If you add up all that time I’ll bet she’s actually doing a fair bit.

Is it the exam thing that’s perhaps put her off practicing at home? How is she with exams in general?

It’s a total pain in the ass getting them to practice for exams, I think it just takes all the fun out of the instrument. DS, age 10 has passed his grade 8 in electric guitar in March. Before and since the exam he was/is always on his guitar, but in the two months leading up to the exam, every time he picked it up (for fun) we would be there saying “shouldn’t you do a run thru of the exam work” and by the date of the exam it had become a total chore for him, and us. Only afterwards when he got his result did he appreciate how it had paid off.

His lessons since have been totally just for messing around and have basically been him and his tutor jamming together, but now he’s ready and eager to carry on learning. He's working on grade 5 guitar and has started tinkering around on the piano of his own accord. I have a feeling he might ask for piano lessons soon.

I say continue with the lessons.

all hail it's funny you should say that about gymnastics, DD's spent hours perfecting a back hand-spring. She used to do ballet then gave it up for gym this year but felt 'old' so she gave up lessons (my decision as I was fed up with her moaning about being old) yet she continues to spend all her available daylight hours flipping/hand standing.

DD has already noticed that lots of people have given up this instrument/that instrument and is determined that it won't be her.

rallytog, she used to play french horn and got a distinction in an exam (not sure what grade, 1/2?) but gave it up as she changed schools.

She's just been on the phone and said 'let's give it 6 months and if I haven't progressed then I'll give it up' in relation to piano.

Sorry - grade 5 drums, not guitar.

I wondered Canary :)

He's well set up to be in a band then isn't he.

I'm going to steal 'stealth practice'

It's why singing is so much easier than anything else, DD is always in 3 sometimes 4 or 5 choirs and groups at once. She and her sister sing parodies of everything (frozen was coping yesterday). When revision gets in her nerves she sings.

She has a DD who's a really good pianist, he gets borrowed for every event and to accompany 1/2 the GCSE groups.

School has a very lively jazz orchestra and various rock and other groups.

Lots of fun music occures that isn't dry grade pieces.

It helps enormously. If DD2 had got to play the piano to grade 3/4 ish so she could have played basic pop and show stuff I'm sure she'd of carried on, but she just hated the formal RSM grade pieces and gave up.

I think OP your DD has to decide how to make music fun, now it's stopping being easy and/or she'll slog on with it because it builds charecter. Which has to be her choice and knowing money is at stake doesn't make it an easy choice.

DF not DD, fortunately my 16y doesn't have a DD.

Yes, ear plugs are a necessity in our house .

I think it’s a wonderful thing to be able to play any kind of instrument and lessons should be kept up unless they absolutely can’t be. I played violin up to grade 3 and gave it up at around age 12, and from what I can remember (although it was a long time ago) I just hated practicing for exams, I don’t know why… too lazy probably, or I wanted to be doing other things. I wish my parents had said ok, forget the exams but just carry on with the lessons for now, but I guess at the time they couldn’t afford to or couldn’t see the point. It’s one of those things that I’ll always regret, that I didn’t stick with it and that my folks didn’t make me stick with it.

She's grade 5 on two instruments at the age of TWELVE, has an academic scholarship and is brilliant / conscientiously practising at gym?

She sounds like the girls I was at school with (I was very academic and moderately good at music but never quite got to the holy trinity of brilliance in music / academia / sport).

Don't let her give up the instruments. She's evidently doing very well, practice or no practice. Don't worry about it - if she feels she is slipping behind others she will take up the practice again. At the moment she's coasting, as well she might, quite frankly.

Please don't push her too hard. If she's this talented already then she will be getting plenty of pressure at school and what she needs at home is plenty of praise and support, especially as exams get nearer and school starts heaping on the pressure and the daily "reminders" about league tables. Honestly, league tables were so important in my youthful life that I reflexively still look them up to see if my old school is still in the top ten (it always is). Pressure at home as well as at school did bad things to some of my peers at school.

If the school think she is no longer getting any benefit from the music lessons they will tell you so.

I got to grade 8 in clarinet and piano and played a couple of other instruments right through school and uni, and like your DD I was often not very motivated to practice at home, but a couple of things really helped:

• Playing with a group/ensemble where everybody was as good as or better than me, where there was a real expectation that you would pick up a new piece one week and all have it nailed by the next week. One of the problems with the school orchestras and bands by the time I got to about Yr9 was that it was all a bit too easy. A real challenge helped, and I guess by that time I had enough of an understanding of music itself to get why scales/arpeggios etc. were important.
• a new clarinet teacher who was genuinely inspiring, great fun to be around and so I just enjoyed playing with her so much. We did a really fun jazz clarinet duet for part of my A'level recital and the examiner commented that he could see what a great time we were having and wanted to join in.
• I got pretty 'into' the theory side of things and loved writing arrangements for things and composing little nonsense things. I was never that good at it, but it made me spend a lot more time at the piano.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'progress'. She is likely progressing in any number of ways that might not be immediately obvious to you (backed up by school saying they are happy). Is she frustrated? Is it just your worry about her slipping back? No matter what you do or say, she is the only person who can own her musical development. I suspect give it a year or two and she might be motivated by a whole load of new musical challenges.

My 12 yo DD got fed up with piano and switched to clarinet, which she's much happier with. She was never going to be as proficient as the ones on this thread, had fairly basic problems with deciphering complex rhythms and reading several lines of notes at the same time, but is now learning these much more effectively with a single-note instrument. I'm wondering if the OP's DD might benefit from trying different instruments and styles of music. Exam pieces can become an awful treadmill after a while and it would probably be very good for her to diversify at this stage, take the pressure off and try a load of different musical stuff (without getting worried about falling behind.) It's not all about getting distinctions - it's about enjoying playing, and whilst it's not easy and fun all the time, there's no point in playing if you never enjoy it.

Maybe you need to ask why it is important that she carries on. Playing a musical instument is not vital to having a happy life, although if you enjoy it then obviously it's a bonus. I have taken a very different tack with my kids, they can start learning an instrument but if they don't practice without being endlessly nagged then the lessons stop. I wouldn't insist that they kearn to knit, play lacrosse, learn mandarin if they showed no interest so I don't see why music is viewed differently. My DD started piano but wouldn't practice so I stopped her lessons. She then asked to take up Saxaphone and interestingly I never have to tell her to practice that (it's very loud!) and she's working her way steadily through her grades. Piano wasn't for her.

I started playing the piano in my mid-30s and have just reached grade 4. It's never too late to learn. No one has to nag me to practice :) What I found interesting is that a number of my friends have grade 8 in a selection of instruments but none of them play now and none of them appear sad about this.