to stop music lessons for DD (12)

[pippiLS]

She's been playing piano and violin since she was 5/6 and has got to grade 5 level in each instrument. Her work ethic around practice is virtually non-existent. I mistakenly thought that by this stage she would have developed a routine to keep up with her instruments but she just doesn't make time to play them.

Has anyone made this decision for their DC?

She has a music scholarship at an Independent school worth 15% of the fees but I'm trying not to let that influence the decision.

So if we make the decision to stick with it, how do we motivate her to take it seriously and put in the practise? You can't just hope to keep progressing by going from one 30 minute lesson per week to the next with only 20 minutes playing time between lessons.

Bribe her with a treat if she can pass grade 5 in at least one instrument.

My DD was dreadful at practising her instruments - then we changed teacher, he motivates her somehow.
Also, for every minute she practises DD gets the equivalent time on computer games OR she can cash the minutes in as money. This really helps as she is now motivated to practise. She sticks the time up on post it notes on the wall which is her "computer time bank" - also, she wants to play the bassoon when older and I said "Only if you reach grade 5 on another instrument first!" Perhaps a reward shcme - that she creates herself - might help?

I would also suggest your daughter may not practise as a protest at the amount of work she is doing, an academic and a music scholarship is a huge mental burden for a young child. If it wasn't her choice, she may now feel pressured to "perform" and is sick of it.

Try to find ways for her to take in some control of her practise, and does she actually like playing the violin and piano? Perhaps she would prefer another instrument? Does she actually like the music she plays? See if she can think of ways to carry on her music and what she thinks. Try to see if she can think of a way to practise more for herself and not hand her down answers and ideas. She may see the situation very differently.

Note: I spent 3 years haranguing DD to practise, I wish I'd thought of the time bank reward scheme earlier - and it was in fact DD's idea of a good reward.

I realise lessons are extra, but if the scholarship is worth X a year and lessons cost Y, then the op is getting a reduction in school fees amounting to X-Y isn't she?

Ketchup, no bribes/treats here I'm afraid. She will most likely pass in both her instruments, she's probably closer to grade 6 in violin than grade 5.

The music scholarship is worth over £600 per term and piano lessons cost £600 per year. Violin costs twice that but we are considering a new teacher so it will probably be £600 per year as well so we are still quids in to the tune of £600 a year.

Arggghh, maybe we should just leave things as they are...

I would encourage her to keep going, possibly just with one instrument - the violin if she prefers that? See if you can keep the music scholarship too on that basis through a discussion with the music director.
Take the stress off your mornings by practicing in evenings instead since morning practice isn't working for either of you - and the stress of even thinking of it is making you think of giving up entirely?!
Here ds plays the trumpet, and has done his grade 5 (now in Y7) and dd is preparing for grade 5 flute (Y10) dd stopped having lessons for a couple of years and just continued playing with their band - but took up lessons again recently and it's been lovely to hear the progress she's made since then.
Music is a wonderful gift and well worth encouraging and perservering with I think. Mine don't practice that much either BTW - but I can see how much it's still giving them both now and for the future (and hopefully they get some practice in at band)

Miggsie, the computer bank idea is great and I do something similar with my youngest 2 but somehow DD seems too old for that kind of scheme.

What you said about her not practising as a protest is interesting. It was essentially her choice as she had the option to go to a super-selective grammar school but chose the Independent + scholarships - she does love playing her instruments and chose the Independent school for their music provision.

It baffles me how she manages to get on and do her school work without any kind of fuss/protest but maybe somethings got to give.

I think a conversation with the head of music could be helpful to establish whether your daughter is making sufficient progress on both instruments.

Does your daughter have other interests and hobbies outside school apart from music? Does she have enough 'down' time to just relax and be around her friends?

Ketchup she does have other interests and hobbies and down time. She spends hours videoing herself on the trampoline, rows and Skypes friends for looong chats.

The school are happy with her progress, it's just me that isn't. Actually, that's not it, I'm just pre-empting the inevitable slipping backwards that I know will cause her no end of angst.

I don't understand all this get them to grade x and then stop.
You need to find ut if she wants to continue, irrespective of schools and scholarships.
Unless there is some underlying reason if a child isn't self motivating it is because they don't want to do it, this is the same for any subject.
With music however, as it is extra curricular it takes an extra push because to many it isn't essential like maths and English.
She must have been very motivated to have got to gr5 standard and have done a lot of work.
Maybe she has come to the end of the line, has she developed an interest in something else?

I took my grade 5 (piano) when I was 13, so a little older than your dd - I barely practiced at all, but did scrape grade 8 when I was 17 (got bang on 100 basically). I've let it slip a lot and had a good laugh with dh the other day comparing the Beethoven Sonata I played for my A level practical to the music from Twilight I now dick about with. If she doesn't love it enough to practice now, even if she is naturally able, i expect she'll end up like me.

You can't just hope to keep progressing by going from one 30 minute lesson per week to the next with only 20 minutes playing time between lessons.

I don't know - it seems to be working at the moment doesn't it?!

I think it's a balance - sometimes they need to practise more, and sometimes less. If they enjoy playing, and are reasonably proficient at it, maybe there's no need for constant "progress" unless they're building up to an exam?

If she wants to continue is it worth nagging her to practise? Personally I was awful and my parents had to nag me every week. I got to grade 6 in piano and 8 in clarinet, which I found invaluable later in life, I was able to make friends in a foreign country because of joining a band there. I think it's worth the effort, only if she's enjoying it though.

The scales start getting really insane now as well - you can't blag them in later grades - so boring to practice. And she'll have to do her grade 5 theory to continue as well, which is quite a lot if work if I remember correctly.

I have a very minority view on this one- when my dd was about 11, she really wasn't practising much- she was very busy and I was thinking about her stopping. I talked to her teacher who suggested that for a while she should continue coming to lessons, but completely take the pressure off practising. So at the beginning of the lesson he would ask her if she'd "had time" to practise. If yes, they worked on her pieces. If no, then they just spent the time improvising and playing together. She learned soooo much during those "noodle" lessons and had so much fun that it kept her interested and playing through a time when she would otherwise have certainly given up. She's still playing now, at 18. So practise isn't everything!

I would try to keep at least one instrument going. Being able to play in an orchestra / ensemble is a good way of making friends (e.g. at university), and if she gets good enough to teach, this is a great way of making a little money as a student. My parents, on a couple of occasions, got me to agree to commit and practise (complete with timetables etc) until the end of the next term, at which point we'd make a joint decision on giving up. I never did want to when it came to it - after practising ever day I always started to feel that I was achieving something.

It was only when I helped her to cram for her grade 5 piano that I realised how difficult it all is. There are over 50 scales/arpeggios that you have to be able to confidently play with no hesitation .

I think you need to ask your DD if she wants to continue and also what she would like from her music. Playing an instrument isn't just about grades and if she enjoys performing regularly and the school are happy, I'm not sure you have too much to worry about.

I know you said that money is an issue but music lessons form an important part of your DDs life and she has already achieved a high standard. When you are dealing with independent schools it is easy to forget that most average music students don't get anywhere near grade 5 until their mid teens. Clearly your DD is talented and has a real flair for the subject which is why she was awarded a scholarship.

I asked about hobbies and downtime because some parents push their children into music at the expense of everything else which is clearly not the case here.

It is a lot of money to pay for lessons, so she is taking the piss by not practicing.

I threaten my DDs that lack of practice means they need to give up their lessons. They love their violin teacher and their lessons, just not practicing. I do mean this, and they know it. So they continue to practice. I also make same threat if they are stroppy during practice.

Would it be worth considering taking a break from one of the instruments? Or switch one from grades to pleasure playing?

Practice isn't everything, but it shows respect for the teacher and also to you, for coughing up the money for these lessons.

I'm thinking now that I should try and help her a bit more as she doesn't want to give up. Maybe it is time for a bit of gentle/clever bribery, all ideas welcome.

littlepeas she is well on the way with her grade 5 theory and enjoys doing it.

Thanks for all of the stories, as usual MN is the place to talk through these sorts of things.

"as usual MN is the place" ....

glad it's helping pip

Speak to the school but speak to your daughter first. Ask her what she TRULY wants and then explain the financial implications if she loses her scholarship.

I don't think you can force someone to pass exams if they don't want to - yes they can sit them but they can deliberately screw them up - but you can find out what the issues are before any decision is made.

Yes, I think just support a little more through this slightly tricky phase and see where you go from there ....

I would abandon the morning practice. How many of us actually feel like getting up and HAVING to do something like that.. certainly not many teenagers.

Set the practice for when she gets in from school maybe.. what type of music does she play apart from her lesson material? Does she have the sheet music for chart stuff, as that kept my interest going, and still does.