Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Flip

1 2 ··· 8 9 10 ··· 13 14

Original poster

to feel scared for our girls when kicking prostitutes in a video game

345 replies

Duckierub · 13/05/2014 12:54

gets you more points.

Did anyone see the program about women's roles in video games? I was utterly horrified when I saw the imagery of how women are portrayed as sexual objects and kicking female prostitutes to get your money back earned you points. I was also shocked that the teen girls interviewed said it was normal for them to be molested by boys.

AIBU to think that we should be campaigning against some of this stuff?

OP posts:

SaskiaRembrandtWasFramed · 13/05/2014 17:54

Yes, we do have societal protections. For example: we limit alcohol and cigarettes to over-18s. We don't let people drive until they are a) old enough and b) able to do so safely. We limit access to some films and television programmes because they are not suitable for children. We do not ban these things because some people can't get their head around the idea of taking responsibility for their own offspring. This is no different, and I'm glad to hear it is a safeguarding issue, it should be!

FWI, English law is based on what a reasonable person would do. Not on what the most irresponsible would do.

hotfuzzra · 13/05/2014 17:55

Legal geek, sorry about this but...
Whoever said it wasn't rape is wrong. Technically if you intend to pay someone for sex, which they consent to, knowing that once you've dtd you are going to steal the money back, which they wouldn't consent to - this is rape as they are not giving full, informed consent. They would not agree to sex without the money, and the person doing it knows they are not going to get their money.
So it is rape.
Anyhoo, I watched the programme and I found it very interesting. I watched it with DH and it took us twice as long to watch it as we stopped it many times and had conversations about points being made.
One of the biggest things I worry about is the prevalence of violence and subjugation of women in porn, which no one has talked about here. Not everyone plays GTA or even games like that, but I would estimate the vast majority of males (and many women) watch porn, some from a young age.
It is a pity that consensual, fun, loving sex does not float people's boats, and instead you see domination, degradation and often violence towards women. This was touched on in the programme where Kirsty was at a school and the boys are just used to it, and the girls worry this is what they will be expected to do, when they get round to being ready.
With sex being such an important part of life, and puberty, and of course adulthood, I wish porn could be more realistic and show the fun sexy side of adult relationships rather than pervy men having sex with young women made to look like teens, often in a domineering and humiliating way.
Anyway GTA is a game, it is not real life. Murdering someone on a game does not show a predilection for wanting to murder someone in real life. I should imagine that many people who play this game do so for the shock factor, and have killed a prostitute and thought yuck, not wow that was awesome I'm definitely going to go and do that tonight! I hope :)

BertieBotts · 13/05/2014 17:57

OK Rabid, but when I'm browsing apps on my phone which isn't the fastest, I don't want to have to switch apps to check google and youtube for everything I fleetingly think "oh that looks good". It should be in the description!

It's a side argument anyway, because most kids downloading apps onto their phones/tablets are doing it themselves, not asking parents about every single one unless they are very young.

unrealhousewife · 13/05/2014 17:59

The trouble with computer games is that the rules are made up not by the players, as in any other imaginary game, but by a few geeky blokes that earn loads of money and spend a lot of time in front of screens.

So we have two things going on at once - the fantasy (which historically was a consensual thing that children agree on when they play 'army') and the challenge aspect which you find in other games like chess and monopoly. So we are given rules, which is what makes a game a game - you have to roll two sixes to get another go/reach the next level, but the fantasy element is based on the game 'Chicken' or 'Dare' and it's not agreed or set up by one young person for another, people who go to the same school or whose grannies are mates, it's set up by an international corporation that makes money out of you and knows that in order to make more money it needs to go that little step further.

It's cheap tricks disguised as something hugely desirable.

BertieBotts · 13/05/2014 18:00

Actually I mentioned porn pages ago and at least two people have mentioned it after me. Read the whole thread (or at least use the "find on page" function!) if you're going to complain that nobody is talking about something.

Your post is full of contradictions too! Murder on a game doesn't make you want to murder in real life but brutal porn leads to brutal sex? One or the other, surely.

SoFetch · 13/05/2014 18:00

It makes me sick to the stomach.

I can remember being about ten and playing GTA at a friends house (she had an older brother and we had snuck into his room to play). I was playing it laughing and joking, happily running over the prostitutes to get more money. Also realising that you can take them to an alleyway and make the car shake - but if you beat them before you pay them, you don't have to pay. All this at ten. (Yes, I probably should have known better, but at the time it was "just a game" and all my friends were enjoying it - it seemed fun.)

I felt disgusted with myself when I looked back on it as I got a bit older. Even more disgusted when I consider the wider impacts that this has. Not all children will realise how terrible it is as they get older. Not all children have to sneak into their friend's older brother's room to have access to games like this. I think the companies creating these games really have a lot to answer for.

BertieBotts · 13/05/2014 18:00

You definitely have a good point there housewife.

JCDenton · 13/05/2014 18:02

it's set up by an international corporation that makes money out of you and knows that in order to make more money it needs to go that little step further.

I play games because they're fun, not because of 'how far' they go.

Also games are big business, GTA4 and 5 had budgets as big as blockbuster films and employ professional scriptwriters and directors. It's not two fat blokes coding away in a bedroom somewhere.

SaskiaRembrandtWasFramed · 13/05/2014 18:03

Unreal - GTA is a sandbox game. They are very common now, and they don't have rules in the sense that you mean. They aren't rigid, you don't win by following a linear set of objectives. The player can choose to follow certain paths, or not to.

unrealhousewife · 13/05/2014 18:05

Ah, I remember, the games where the 'leader' would keep changing the rules as you went along which usually pissed everyone off so they wouldn't play with them any more.

So the games producers have tapped into that to enable people to be the leaders in their own game. Where's the challenge though?

JCDenton · 13/05/2014 18:06

Also I need to make a small point. People always say you 'get your money back' if you kill a prostitute. Not true. The player can attack any bystander and they will drop a random amount of money. It doesn't matter of you've paid the prostitute/fast food seller/taxi driver/internet cafe nothing or thousands of in game dollars. They will drop the same random amount of money.

TillyTellTale · 13/05/2014 18:06

hotfuzzra I don't know if I can find the precedent, much less link it, on a phone, but it has been ruled before in real life that it isn't rape if a slimy client refuses to pay.

JCDenton · 13/05/2014 18:07

So the games producers have tapped into that to enable people to be the leaders in their own game. Where's the challenge though?

In beating the in-game missions. In setting your own objectives. In winning a multiplayer match.

hotcrosshunny · 13/05/2014 18:08

Yes we make it harder for children to get hold of alcohol - we don't rely on parents to police it. Which is what we should do for GTA. I also think it is a wider reflection of society that it is normal to play such things but that is me.

SaskiaRembrandtWasFramed · 13/05/2014 18:09

"So the games producers have tapped into that to enable people to be the leaders in their own game. Where's the challenge though?"

You make your own challenges. I have never played GTA, but I do play another open-ended game and the fun is in exploring the world, making the characters, putting them into a situation and seeing what happens. It's a bit like directing your own film. Also, they work out a lot more cost effective than a game that does have a final objective because you can go back and play again but in a different way.

I've been playing my favourite for ten years now, so, I think I got value for money

BertieBotts · 13/05/2014 18:10

I play sandbox games which don't always have a challenge - it's just fun to explore and see what you can do.

But the point is true for other games.

I do think that games companies, and other companies, will always push the boundaries of what is acceptable in order to be "edgy". You can see it in music, in TV, in film and games. Not so much books which is interesting. But it's true - even if an individual doesn't look for the "edgniess" factor in a game/film/music video/TV show, the fact that it's pushed a boundary, is controversial or groundbreaking, makes for publicity and publicity means sales, if only so that people can see what it's all about.

enderwoman · 13/05/2014 18:10

I think there is a problem with the games available in general. When my kids were about 8/9 and started mentioning CoD/Saints Row/GTA I had to find games that were neither too babyish or adult. I think that there are lots of games aimed at the young and adult but there doesn't seem as many marketed towards older children in between the 2 groups bar FIFA.
That's why when Minecraft came along I was happy to encourage them to play it.

BertieBotts · 13/05/2014 18:11

Ha saskia - sims 2? Me too :) Still find new things in it too after a decade. I think it will amuse me for at least another ten.

AskBasil · 13/05/2014 18:11

How do you know that these young girls are going through a lesbian "phase"?

Could it just be that now that compulsory heterosexuality isn't so rigidly imposed, girls are exploring other options?

I don't see the problem with girls being lesbians. In fact I think it's rather a good thing. No risk of pregnancy, very reduced risk of STD's and far less likelihood of being coerced into doing things they don't want. What's not to like?

BertieBotts · 13/05/2014 18:12

Very true Ender. It's sports games or minecraft. Mind, the lego games are pretty good for that sort of age group.

KittyandTeal · 13/05/2014 18:12

My DH 'mates' think I'm the worst wife ever as I've banned GTA from our house.

enderwoman · 13/05/2014 18:12

I see lots of grandparents in game shops (presumably buying gifts) Any campaign needs to educate grandparents too.

BertieBotts · 13/05/2014 18:14

Grandparents less of an issue IME. If a grandparent buys a game a parent thinks is unsuitable the parent will usually return the game.

But then perhaps that's more because the parents who restrict games are quite strong in their views, and the more laid back parents don't restrict in the first place?

BertieBotts · 13/05/2014 18:14

Ha Kitty

enderwoman · 13/05/2014 18:15

BertieBotts My kids loved the free roam aspect of Lego Marvel Superheroes. They would love more games like that.

Flip

1 2 ··· 8 9 10 ··· 13 14