to keep dsc against their mum's wishes?

[choplouey]

Dsc are 6, 8 and 9. There's been a huge history of their mum contact blocking for really ridiculous reasons - I.e. Because dh upset them by not buying them candyfloss, because dsc had a hair appointment (on the day they were due to play a part in dBils wedding) and so on. The children are always really happy to see us (and our 3 dc) and always ask to stay.

Dh got a contact order a few months ago. ExW has breached it for several petty reasons (you didn't brush dds hair adequately last time) and the next contact date is this weekend, when they're due to stay overnight. It's one of the dsc birthdays and we've planned and paid for a theme park trip and night in the adjoining hotel, which he'd love. However, exW has said she won't allow them to stay overnight because they didn't have a bath last time - they were only here for 8 hours!!

The contact order clearly says contact is from Saturday morning until Sunday evening. It's back in court for review next month but if this weekend is cancelled that'll be ten weeks between contact. Dh has told the children they're staying over and is being repeatedly made to look unreliable to the dsc by exW changing plans. Would it be unreasonable to collect them Saturday morning and stick to the court order, returning them Sunday evening, against their mums wishes?

Well said wannaBe

We had similar problems with Dsd's mum. She had an affair and is still on and off with om now (5 years later).

When I started seeing dp, she told dsd that I was ow and I stole her dad away. Not remotely true. I hadn't even met him til 5 months after they split and didn't enter a relationship with him for another 6 months! Dsd was only 4, so believed her mum. Dsd's mum cancelled contact loads during the beginning of our relationship and told dsd it was her dad who cancelled because he wanted to be with me and my ds's.

All the people who are so quick to jump to mum's defence should realise that some of them are actually causing the problems, being childish and using their dc as pawns.

Anyway, op, I think you should ignore the crazy bitch and stick to your court order. Hope you have a nice weekend :)

The reasons why a relationship ends or whether the new partner was an ow are irrelevant when it comes to contact. And people giving the ow a hard time, saying that one should be mindful of the poor ex (who is happy to use her children as manipulation pawns) are out of order.

The question is, does the OP want to be legally correct or does she want to improve relations and ease communication. The exw will be a significant figure in her life for the next 15 years plus. That's a LOT of stress and legal fees if things remain this fraught.

Psychologically, the history and how the marriage ended are relevant; Legally speaking, obviously not.

All the people who are so quick to jump to mum's defence should realise that some of them are actually causing the problems, being childish and using their dc as pawns.

If that is the case, it is all the more reason to react calmly and not escalate the whole situation into complete warfare.

All this 'crazy bitch ex', 'vindictive cow', 'spiteful manipulation' stuff is all very well, but does it get anyone any closer to a bearable life?

Which is the lesser of the two evils Fideline?

In our case, DSD was going to be hurt no matter what we did.

Either - 1. Because she believed the things her mum was saying about her dad and felt hurt that her dad didn't care about her.

or - 2. Because we proved her mum was lying to her about her dad and she felt hurt that her mum would do that.

She was a 'loser' whichever route we took, so we went for the truth. You can't argue with the truth.

The OP is sticking to the letter of the law. That cannot be denied, no matter what spin the Ex Wife wants to put on it. I have no sympathy for men or women that would use their children to hurt the other party.

Your description of your handling of that situation didn't sound particularly hot-headed though Eve, unfortunate though it always is for a parent to have to be showing evidence to nine year olds.

There is clearly a lot of heat in the OP's situation. The timeframe for divorce/remarriage/new DC has been whirlwind fast. There are SIX DC in the family. That's a lot of pressure. Maybe it's too early to just decide the EX is batshit crazy and act accordingly.

Anyway, it is obvious from OPs posts that she is angry. It can't be good to be resigned to that level of stress for 15 years ahead.

And, from the other angle, if the EXW is really giving the reasons for truncated contact that the OP has mentioned (and there isn't more to it), then surely the clever strategic thing to do would be to let her sabotage this weekend's contact, make sure there's proof and add that to the evidence put in front of the judge next month?

That's true. That level of stress is bad for everyone.

It helped me to take a step back and detach, and to be able to come onto MN and vent vent vent! I often wish that DH had been able to do the same, it would have been much healthier.

I view his ex with a slightly raised eyebrow and a feeling of pity that she could still be so unhappy, despite everything else good going on in her life. Whereas DH hates her, can barely hear her name without steam coming out of his ears. I imagine his ex feels the same about him.

She's no need to hate me though, and I'm pretty sure she does.

It used to be a regular occurrence in my life that my mum would tell me utter shit about my dad (and my dad utter shit about me, things like I'd confided that he hit me) so much so that I didn't know if I were coming and going.

In the end, the only relationship that was damaged was the one between my mum and me once I was old enough to work out the. truth.

I'm afraid I don't have any particularly helpful advice, I do have a lot of sympathy for your situation and for the children in question.

Also been there and done that, got the t shirt etc.

Take a photo copy of the court order away with you in case she calls the police re abduction. Then sod her, go away and have a lovely time.

Sounds very familiar milksteak

Her motive this weekend is to stop the trip for her dc so our dc will later tell them they went without them and they'll feel excluded. While we can say there were tickets bought for them, equally she can claim there wasn't and it isn't fair for the dsc to be stuck in the middle.

They've been separated for over 6 years so it isn't like time is suddenly going to heal everything. She dumped dh because she was pregnant with her dc3 and thoughtit was OMs baby then desperately tried to back pedal when it was discovered that wasn't the case. I met him when dsc3 was 3 months old and we've been together since.

take a copy (several copies) of the court order with you and go off to the hotel.

she has no come back when it is written in the court order.

however....if it falls on her ds birthday itself she might be here saying "I know it' s court order but contact falls on my ds birthday..." and people might be saying "oh of course you should have your ds on his birthday....he should not be celebrating with step mum"

But... it is a court order and in these cases sticking to the times whatever the day is going to be best. unless it been negotiated prior.

I think I would keep the DC overnight, as per the court order, and ensure that I have a copy of that court order to hand in case the police arrive.

However, while you may appear have the moral and legal right here, and you're not responsible for creating the situation in the first place, I wonder how well this tit-for-tat fighting over contact is going to benefit the DSC. Time for a more proactive and definitive approach I think.

Aren't you sort of "playing the game" by negotiating with her over contact and confirming details so that there is no 'room for confusion'?. Wouldn't it be better to just stick to the agreed Order to the letter so that there is no opportunity for manipulation? Sort of treat it like you would a tantrumming toddler. Usually they come round, however unreasonable, if they can see you are immovable and perfectly unruffled by their antics.

Most parents, however hurt by each other and however irrational in general, love their DC more than they hate their X. Most parents - when it is explained to them in no uncertain terms that their effort to punish the X/protect the DC (as they see it) are actually hurting the DC - wind in their necks. Sometimes it needs spelling out to them - often by a court - and sometimes it takes considerable time. But things usually settle down.

The X in this case hasn't calmed down. So either she's a mother with some issues who is possibly guilty of abusing her DC indirectly and therefore might not be best placed to be primary carer, or there is much more to this story than meets the eye.

If mum is that unstable and manipulative over her DC then surely the best plan would be to go for primary residency yourself?

No contact isn't on his actual birthday cestlavie - she'd never allow that.

Pounding she sent him a message saying because he didn't bath them last time she wasn't going to allow overnight contact so unless he responds she'll just be out on the morning of collection and he won't see them at all. At least by replying he gets the day.

Of course we'd love residency but when she's stopping contact so the status quo is she's had them for months and dh isn't seeing them then that's highly unlikely to happen.

chop is your DH keeping adequate records? Is he detailing all of this so that CAFCASS can see that the reason for stopping contact (not bathing DC) is spurious (i.e. no bath was necessary or even desirable).

Because while CAFCASS quite often make IMO awful decisions, IME that's because there is insufficient evidence and therefore they tend to go with the parent who seems most plausible. I would expect CAFCASS to take the XW's antics much more seriously if your DH is able to document all this and present it as evidence of deliberate obstruction. Which is, of course, a reason for doing everything via text, email or recorded voicemail.

Also, if you have a court order could you just as easily use the police as the mother has. This is civil law, not criminal, so the police won't actually do anything like arrest the mother for obstruction or physically remove the DC from her care and hand them over to your DH. However, they would be obliged to perform a welfare check on those children (which is further evidence of obstructed contact) and on seeing the papers presented by your DH would probably encourage the mother (not force) to hand over the DC for contact and remind her that court is the right way to air her concerns, not withholding contact. That may help refocus her perspective.

It's a waste of police time and not at all conducive to family harmony, of course, but maybe a reminder that the mother doesn't hold all the power here.

He is, Pounding, but CAFCASS aren't involved.

Can't really use the police route ourselves as she will happily reply to messages saying how great and happy they are with her so it'd look like a game if dh asked them to check on their welfare.

Stick to the court order.... x

We've had all this and more (sadly) over the years.

Your court order is what matters and the police cannot take the children if the court has detailed when contact happens.

I would ignore her text messages/phone calls and accept emails only. We ended up doing this and having to change numbers too as DSS's mother was ringing up at all hours for screaming matches.

Keeping a diary is a good idea. We did this and showed it to CAFCASS.