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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to keep dsc against their mum's wishes?

69 replies

choplouey · 12/05/2014 23:52

Dsc are 6, 8 and 9. There's been a huge history of their mum contact blocking for really ridiculous reasons - I.e. Because dh upset them by not buying them candyfloss, because dsc had a hair appointment (on the day they were due to play a part in dBils wedding) and so on. The children are always really happy to see us (and our 3 dc) and always ask to stay.

Dh got a contact order a few months ago. ExW has breached it for several petty reasons (you didn't brush dds hair adequately last time) and the next contact date is this weekend, when they're due to stay overnight. It's one of the dsc birthdays and we've planned and paid for a theme park trip and night in the adjoining hotel, which he'd love. However, exW has said she won't allow them to stay overnight because they didn't have a bath last time - they were only here for 8 hours!!

The contact order clearly says contact is from Saturday morning until Sunday evening. It's back in court for review next month but if this weekend is cancelled that'll be ten weeks between contact. Dh has told the children they're staying over and is being repeatedly made to look unreliable to the dsc by exW changing plans. Would it be unreasonable to collect them Saturday morning and stick to the court order, returning them Sunday evening, against their mums wishes?

OP posts:

ICanSeeTheSun · 13/05/2014 06:05

I would speak to your solicitor.

On the service I would say Yanbu, it's a court order so you legally can.

However contact is for the child's benefit, not the parent so is keeping them going to benefit them or not.

Delphiniumsblue · 13/05/2014 06:29

I would stick to the court order - that is the reason for having it. I would also keep a diary of her illogical behaviour, you may need it at some future point.

Original poster

choplouey · 13/05/2014 07:19

I was not the OW. I honestly can't believe so many people think it's ok to mess around with childrens lives and relationships with their father on the basis of their father having an affair. In this case it was their mum who had (several) affairs yet it's dh and the dsc that are suffering.

Fideline we have twins so not that busy

AF dh wants to keep them for planned time and trip but is scared of repercussions if (when) she calls police but. A court order is a court order.

She can't turn up demanding them back and causing a scene because we'll be away for the weekend.

OP posts:

OwlCapone · 13/05/2014 07:22

If you are simply complying with the court order then keep them as specified in the order.

Otherwise, don't.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 13/05/2014 07:23

On what basis would she call the police if you are dolling the court order?

Original poster

choplouey · 13/05/2014 07:23

Wilson there's 6 months between reviews though so she could do the same next time and they'd barely see dh. Last time the judge took her seriously when she said she'd prevented weekend contact in case he didn't listen to the dsc read their school reading books...which she'd never sent with them! All these tactics by her are designed to irretrievably damage their relationship and certainly not celebrating dss birthday in the planned way would do so.

OP posts:

Original poster

choplouey · 13/05/2014 07:25

She would call the police saying she's asked for them back, dh is incommunicado and she's worried about the dc, that they expected to go home and will terribly upset etc I imagine.

OP posts:

TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 13/05/2014 07:32

Has she done it before? If said police get in touch, wouldn't they want to see the contact order and then go away?

If you post on legal matters you might get an answer as to process but I would be surprised if there aren't some checks before the police come out to you.

sandgrown · 13/05/2014 07:32

Why are people being mean to OP? Whether she was OW or not is not relevant to DH relationship with his children. They are not pawns in a game! I have DSC and when they were younger I made all the arrangements with DH ex-wife because he worked long hours. He was able to see them more because I went to get them. Luckily ex wife was fine and enjoyed her time off!

HelenHen · 13/05/2014 07:32

Can you speak to the local police in advance? Warn them this may happen! Give them your contact details and tell them you're sticking to the court order?

TestingTestingWonTooFree · 13/05/2014 07:36

Keep a copy of the order with you. I would definitely give her an update that the children are well. If the police do a welfare check they will see that the children are ok and you can show them the order. I wouldn't expect them to do anything further.

Fideline987654321 · 13/05/2014 07:42

I honestly can't believe so many people think it's ok to mess around with childrens lives and relationships with their father on the basis of their father having an affair.

I don't, but clearly there has been a lot of change in all of your lives in a relatively short space of time, maybe there are still bruised feelings, and there is tension.

If you weren't the OW then there is more chance of matters improving with time, so maybe a softly softly approach would be worth a go.

fedupbutfine · 13/05/2014 07:46

Obviously. If she was reasonable, you wouldn't have a court order in the first place!

It might be 'obvious' in this case, but to be very clear, there are plenty of men (and women) out there who use the court process as a means by which to abuse an ex partner and nothing at all to do with wanting to see their children and/or not being allowed to see their children. To be even clearer, as someone who went through this with an ex who she shared 50/50 care of young children with (but which wasn't enough for my ex), it is even possible for a parent to be ordered to see their children less than they were doing because of the concerns of CAFCASS/judges of the damage they are doing with shared care. There is nothing 'obvious' about a Contact Order - two sides to every story and all that.

Morgause · 13/05/2014 07:51

If the planned trip can't happen I hope you make is crystal clear to the DSCs that it's their mother's doing.

Goldmandra · 13/05/2014 07:52

Don't ask for advice on MN. Get your DH to go and see his solicitor and follow their advice.

Thistledew · 13/05/2014 07:53

A friend of mine has gone through similar:

Court ordered contact every other weekend, which he has fought for and sticks to without fail. ExW calls him up on the Thursday before the weekend "Are you having the children this weekend?" He calls her back to say "Yes, of course". She doesn't answer the phone so he leaves a message. Fortunately suspects she is up to something and so confirms the usual arrangements by text and email as well.

He collects the DCs from school as normal (they were expecting him) and takes them home. An hour later the police turn up on his doorstep- she has reported that the DC had been abducted as she "didn't hear from him to confirm he was having them that weekend".

Fortunately, when he shows the police the contact order and the text message and email, they quickly leave to have a word with her about wasting police time.

After other similar incidents, he keeps a copy of the contact order and DCs Birth Certs in his wallet and if she phones him, he records every call (he has told her that he is doing so).

Take the children as per the order, but keep a copy of all relevant documents with you.

Fideline987654321 · 13/05/2014 07:54

If the planned trip can't happen I hope you make is crystal clear to the DSCs that it's their mother's doing.

Yep drag the children onto the psychological battlefield. Great advice.

Wouldn't it be better to try to de-escalate the conflict?

Does the ex believe you may have been the OW, OP? What do you think her underlying issue is?

LtEveDallas · 13/05/2014 08:07

If the planned trip can't happen I hope you make is crystal clear to the DSCs that it's their mother's doing

Unfortunately we had to do that, or similar, at one stage. It wasn't fair that DSDs ex was lying about DSDs dad and making her believe bad things about him. We were very open, honest and simple. Showed DSD the 'proof' that her dad wasn't doing what her mum said she was doing.

All that happened was that DSD asked her mum why she lied, then countered that lie (we'd been expecting it, so had prepared her), and eventually said "I want to see dad, I don't want you to tell me anything else. I love you mum, but I love dad too".

Easier for us I suppose because DD was 9 or 10 at the time.

Morgause · 13/05/2014 08:08

The children are expecting the trip and looking forward to it. How do you suggest it is explained to them?

They need to know their DF didn't let them down.

Fideline987654321 · 13/05/2014 08:14

I suggest it's explained gently that there is still disagreement and so Dad has decided not to upset Mum by going ahead with the trip.

No explanation will be easy but 'I hope you make it crystal clear it's their mother's doing' doesn't conjure up images of calm, dispassionate explanations gently delivered.

Whatever the truth of the situation they will figure it out. They don't need to feel the vitriol.

OwlCapone · 13/05/2014 08:15

I have been known to say they can't do something because their father blah blah blah. Just as an explanation, no heavy handed blame attached. There is no reason not to tell the truth but there is no need to go in and detail every bit of blame.

I am often aghast at threads like this. XH left me for an OW when I was pregnant with DC3.so, with good reason, I despise the pair of them and hold them in great contempt. However, we manage to arrange contact with no court order in place. It is very rare that I say no to a change in the arrangements or to any extra requests, only when it clashes with something else. I am also happy for him to have the children whenever he wants over holidays - the normal rota goes out the window as it is unnecessary. It means he takes the piss occasionally but the children are happy.

Groovee · 13/05/2014 08:38

I would post on Legal for the legal stance. But definitely carry the contact order with you if she does decide to mess. Remember to keep a log too of all missed of ended shortly contact and the reason why. The judge will not be amused at her breaking the order.

BeetlebumShesAGun · 13/05/2014 08:50

I agree with keeping records of everything and also telling the children what is going on - gently but clearly. I say this as my dad is going through this with his ex wife and my half siblings. She has stopped contact for months now and has also blocked my dad's number from my sisters phone and has told her that her dad just isn't bothered about speaking to her. My dad had to go and meet them outside school to tell my sister that it wasn't true and show her the phone records on his phone. Ex still denied blocking the number!!

You have a court order. Perfectly within your rights. Let her make a twat of herself crying abduction.

wannaBe · 13/05/2014 09:00

The reasons why a relationship ends or whether the new partner was an ow are irrelevant when it comes to contact. And people giving the ow a hard time, saying that one should be mindful of the poor ex (who is happy to use her children as manipulation pawns) are out of order.

There is a court order ordering contact overnight, and the one in the wrong for breaching that is the ex.

Contact is to do with the needs of the children not the parents. Leading the children to believe their father is letting them down is not in their best interests.

Op your dh is doing nothing wrong by keeping the children overnight.

And if the woman is struggling with her feelings then she should go and have some therapy instead of playing out her feelings through her children.

wannaBe · 13/05/2014 09:01

oops people giving the op a hard time...

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