to assume everyone on mn who dislikes ukip

[tobysmum77]

will turn out and VOTE in the European elections??? Last time (2009) the turnout was 34.7% .

limitedperiodonly
Not turning out is treated by the politicos as acquiescence not protest.
If you do not tell them you think they are shits they think you like them.
You have to tell them.

And its true that spoilt ballots are ignored - up to a point.
When the percentage of spoilt ballots starts to rise - especially ones with clear comments on (I've done a count) the candidates get twitchy

imagine if 10% of all ballots were spoilt
or 20%
and yet the winner had only got 20% of the votes cast .... think how that looks for their legitimacy

But... the jiitters are related not to mandate but to re-election I think.

Someone will win, and they will be your elected representative. And their impact will still be there, whether their mandate is large or small.

My point about the fine is a very serious one TheFallenMadonna

Thousands of people disappeared from the electoral roll in 1989-1990 in order to dodge the Poll Tax ether because they objected to it or because they couldn't afford it.

How did that help democracy?

In countries with compulsory voting, dropping off the roll also involves dropping off the benefits register and the like ....

Already voted. I do postal vote, sent it back today.

In countries with compulsory voting, dropping off the roll also involves dropping off the benefits register and the like ....

I don't think that's much of a recommendation but then I'm just a pansy-arsed liberal.

I keep seeing on threads such as this 'but in Australia it's compulsory to vote' and I keep thinking: 'Do you know what? I don't respect Australia. There are many reasons I despise it. In fact, I think I prefer my country's pansy-arsed views'.

I don't agree with compulsory voting limitedperiodonly. I agree with you on that.

I asked the questions because I am interested in your motivation for not voting, and what effect you see it having.

I had something prepared for you ages ago TheFallenMadonna but it was horribly long and boring so I decided to spare you.

But you've asked for it so I'm going to give you the unexpurgated version .

I am a Labour supporter. bit on the Right, and probably will be until they nail my coffin shut.

I grew up in a rock-solid Conservative parliamentary constituency. My council ward traditionally returned Labour candidates in local authority elections but lately has returned BNP councillors. My parents voted Labour in their ward and so would I if I'd lived there because we share the same values even though we're diffferent. We're from white working class stock, btw.

I now live somewhere else, also rock-solid Tory. I don't approve of my local Labour Party or their candidates. I've been here 20 years so their choice of candidates or local issues aren't a one-off. They're cranks. Undoubtedly because they live in a constituency where they don't have a hope of hell of getting in so they can say what they like.

The council is run very well. Unfortunately, the would-be Labour candidates would fuck it up. I am a pragmatist.

My ward councillor is my next door neighbour and is a Tory. I like him very much on a personal basis but I won't vote for him.

He's a rather good local councillor. But I can't bring myself to vote Conservative. But neither can I bring myself to vote for the Labour candidate because I don't think she'd be as good.

Does that explain it?

I suppose it explains why you don't want to vote, but I still disagree, and think that you are certainly not expressing any contempt for any candidate in a meaningful way. Put yourself on the ballot! I have several times, with no hope of winning (actually came within shouting distance once, because I became a focus of protest votes against the incumbent - bit of a shock for everyone!). I am leftish in a Tory stronghold.

I always vote but I think not voting is a valid choice.

I always vote. My argument is always that women suffered and died so we could vote, and you don't need any more reason than that. I don't care who you vote for (well, I do, of course, but...), just get out there and vote.

I would urge everyone to vote in the European elections, and I would urge everyone to vote UKIP.

The reason to vote UKIP isn't to get Farage as PM; it's to make Cameron and Osborne more Thatcherite, forcing them to address the concerns of working class Tories instead of Notting Hill elites.

Cut international aid. Cut tax. Cut benefits. Cut red tape. Leave the ECHR. These are policies that Britain can believe in.

Nigel! How kind of you to join us!

So, another reason for me NOT to vote UKIP then!

Not really aiming for more Thatcherite....

I do vote TheFallenMadonna, just not all the time.

I despise those people on these threads who prate about the suffragettes and people in emerging democracies who get up at the crack of dawn to vote.

Good for them, but I don't live there.

Look at your local candidates and vote. Or don't.

Or stand, as you said.

I wouldn't because it wouldn't be honest of me to do that. If I won, remote as that might be, I wouldn't want to represent the people.

Interestingly that's what happened to some Labour candidates in 1997.

I think working class Tories should have a good long think about who their actual enemies are rather than just believing what some privileged MPs tell them the enemy are.

Clue: it's not some sweatshop workers in Bangladesh, Polish immigrants, benefit claimants or red tape.

There are signs of the UKIP effect already working on Cameron/Osborne. They are moving in the right direction (albeit at a snail's pace). I would prefer leaders with genuine conservative conviction, but failing that, can live with ones who are forced to be conservative by electoral pressure.

The one who should really worry is Miliband. Labour are diving in the polls today.

I'd also say ThefallenMadonna that if I put myself on the ballot against the Conservative candidate and won (very unlikely) that would be dishonest because I have no inclination to help local people.

He does. So it would be wrong of me, wouldn't it?

Labour are not 'diving in the polls'. Don't be silly.

The lib dems are, though.

ICM/Guardian: CON 33 Lab 31 LD 9 UKIP 15 (Con + UKIP 48!)
Ashcroft: CON 34 Lab 32 LD 9 UKIP 15 (Con + UKIP 49!)

Labour doing quite well, then.

The ukip showing looks a bit crap.

That's Westminster voting intention. UKIP are obviously doing much better in the Euros.

Yes I can quite believe we will end up with more snoring ukip MEPs.