Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask who you plan to vote for and why?

118 replies

Eebahgum · 11/05/2014 13:17

Ok, apologies in advance if this becomes a big bun fight but I'm genuinely interested. I have lost faith in all major political parties, read their manifestos and decided they're all as mad as a box of frogs. Don't want to not vote because I believe everyone who can should as recognition for living in a democracy. But who the hell should I vote for?

OP posts:
StarGazeyPond · 11/05/2014 16:28

Apparently I am a twat, cunt, fuckwit, persecution-complexed very very nasty person Smile

And I am not allowed to vote free of any hindrance because if I put a leaflet for UKIP in my window then I will be severely marginalised !!

JanineStHubbins · 11/05/2014 16:30

No, Strgazey, I suggested you had a persecution complex because you raised the possibility of UKIP voters having burning tyres placed around their necks.

Ridiculous, as other posters have also pointed out.

BoulevardOfBrokenSleep · 11/05/2014 16:33

Ratbagcatbag "I don't trust any of the others and they're not listening, so by UKIP gaining ground they may, just may start listening."

I see this sort of comment a lot round here. What exactly is it that you feel politicians aren't listening to?

Is it that you don't like immigrants? Because it seems to me that the main parties have totally got that message. For years, the Conservatives especially have taken every opportunity to bash immigrants, refugees; basically anyone who might be a bit foreign. Don't you remember the 'Are you thinking what we're thinking' campaign?

Is it that you don't like Europe? Again, the politicians get that no-one likes Europe; the Lib Dems are the only ones prepared to stick their heads over the parapet on that one, and they're clearly going to get shat on in this election.

But being as how proper, actual, in power politicians have to look after the economic interests of Britain, trade with other countries, and not look like complete dicks on the world stage... they can't actually do much to act on the voters' inherent xenophobia. Much as they might like to.

What do you expect them to do?

BoulevardOfBrokenSleep · 11/05/2014 16:37

That's a question for any UKIP/protest type voter, by the way - what is the 'message' you are trying to send by voting UKIP?

(For the love of god please don't mention the points system for immigration that we already have, or I will be forced to chew my own arm off in frustration)

windchime · 11/05/2014 16:44

I am voting UKIP because a Polish family pushed in front of us in the queue for the carboot today.

Retropear · 11/05/2014 16:50

Tough question.

I can definitely say it won't be Lib Dem,Conservative or Labour in that order.

Which leaves Green or Ukip.

Might vote Ukip so I can get the satisfaction of pissing off the big 3 who have all royally pissed me off,because it's the only serious competition to Conservative where I live oh and so I can also be called a fuckwit by Mumsnetters of course.Grin

Voted Green last time- yeah that was a voted worth casting.Hmm

Retropear · 11/05/2014 16:50

Last time being local elections.

ComposHat · 11/05/2014 16:54

windchime please tell me that's a joke!

BeyondRepair · 11/05/2014 16:55

For the love of god please don't mention the points system for immigration that we already have, or I will be forced to chew my own arm off in frustration

Oh yes, your right the points system we have that rigorously vets people from the rest of the whole world who want to come and live here and makes them pay for it....

Whilst we have free movement between the whole of Europe..with Nil Points System.

dawndonnaagain · 11/05/2014 16:56

As an ex Labour Councillor I shall vote Green in the European Elections.

zippey · 11/05/2014 16:57

SNP all the way. Scotland needs its independace to break free from Tory and UKIP riddled England.

Freedom!

BeyondRepair · 11/05/2014 17:00

What exactly is it that you feel politicians aren't listening to?
Is it that you don't like immigrants?

I think most of the big parties, even Labour who either

a) Mis calcuted on a mass scale and said, what was it....1,500 Poles may want to come here....

or

b) That it was a deliberate ploy to flood the country with Eastern Europeans to Rub the rights nose in it.

Anyway, even Labour has admitted that its not immigrants that people object too, its simply a volume of people coming to the country that we cannot

a) cope with

and

b) control.

Simples? Confused

Sadly some people, some people are obsessed with race....

MrsBlackthorn · 11/05/2014 17:06

There are plenty of reasons to be suspicious of referenda. There is little evidence that referendums make a vote fair. Nor are they necessarily a means of forming good policies.

Germany has wisely vetoed the use of plebiscites, having seen how the Nazis made such a creative use of them.

Here's why referendums are a bad way if making policy:

  • We often don’t want either of the options we’re being asked to adopt, preferring one that isn’t on the ballot. Governments decide what the question is going to be anyway, and if they don’t like the answer that they get back, they can ignore the result.
  • Referendums are often used to deal with the difficult questions that political parties dare not address during elections. They allow politicians to park awkward or divisive questions when they’d be better offering joined-up answers. They provide a way of letting the political class off the hook, suggesting that a complex issue like Europe is a simple yes/no, when it's far more complicated than that. It polarises the arguments instead of promoting a rich debate and useful complex legislative responses.
  • They drive out the deliberative element in policymaking. The referendum question is an appeal to reflexes rather than an attempt to get a thoughtful response from the public.
  • They hand enormous powers to newspaper proprietors and people with the finances to take one side of the argument. It also hands the reins of government over to unelected and well-heeled pressure groups.

Time and time again, the public don’t answer the question they’ve been asked. They use one question to send an unrelated message to an unpopular government (like many have said they want to do by voting UKIP)

Referendums privilege the weight of opinion (in numbers) over the weight of arguments.

People who don’t have the capacity to engage in the debate on a given issue are effectively disenfranchised – especially when the referendum makes decisions that could be taken by elected representatives who would deliberate on everyone’s behalf and defend their decisions at subsequent elections. The low-paid, people who work long hours, people with enough problems of their own, people who don’t have the confidence to express their views or the opportunity to discuss them become unrepresented

In referendums, power is exercised without responsibility. No-one is under any pressure to ensure that a policy is actually in the long-term public interest.

Doubt and equivocation are a good thing. Instinctive certainty often isn’t. As Darwin put it, “Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.“

Doubters and equivocators are more likely to abstain in referenda. Fanatics will always vote. People who have doubts or equivocation on a subject are more likely to abstain. A smaller-number of people who feel strongly one way can effectively oppress a larger number of people who generally lean in another direction but don’t feel that strongly on the subject.

All of which means referendums are more likely to lead to cretinous, self-defeating decision making led by a small number of noisy single-issue fanatics, than deliberative decision-making using the system we've spent a thousand years refining.

Also, this: www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/miliband-denies-your-right-to-make-massively-ill-informed-decision-2014031284529

Vivacia · 11/05/2014 17:08

Retropear on that basis why don't you vote BNP?

Retropear · 11/05/2014 17:09

No thanks.

Vivacia · 11/05/2014 17:09

I'm really appreciating your posts on this thread MrsBlackthorn.

BoulevardOfBrokenSleep · 11/05/2014 17:33

So, in what year would you say Britain had just the right level of immigration?

BoulevardOfBrokenSleep · 11/05/2014 17:34

(Sorry, what year in history I mean, not a hypothetical future year)

dawndonnaagain · 11/05/2014 17:47

I too appreciate the well thought out and intelligent postings of Mrs Blackthorn.

saoirse31 · 11/05/2014 17:48

In irish Republic, will be voting Sinn Féin in licals and european.

saoirse31 · 11/05/2014 17:49

Licals? Locals

Ratbagcatbag · 11/05/2014 18:59

Ok boulevard, I guess being brutally honest, I don't care about the eu elections, I have no problem with immigrants (so long as they work and contribute) or within reason being in the eu although I think it could do with an overhaul.

I'm voting UKIP this time to show how annoyed I am at the main three in time for the general election. I want policies that don't take take take all the time (squeezed middle here) and give very little back.
If UKIP gets a bigger percentage of the vote, the other parties will have to take notice rather than thinking theyre alright jack and start offering something different. If UKIP is my way of getting that the that's a crappy thing but I am fed up.

I will say, I don't just decide at elections to raise concerns, I have had a couple of party questionnaires and have made full use of the anything else that concerns you box, the follow up call from labour was interesting too.

So I will now possibly be called a fuckwit (not by you, I hasten to add, you have asked valid questions) for two reasons.

MrsBlackthorn · 11/05/2014 19:07

Many of those who voted in the Nazi party probably thought they were sending a message to mainstream politicians, too.

Genuine question, what is it you want other parties to offer, that they aren't now?

JanineStHubbins · 11/05/2014 19:09

IF you don't care about immigrants or being in the EU (within reason), then it's even more incomprehensible why you would vote UKIP.

How do you think the mainstream parties will respond to a big vote for UKIP? What policies would you like to see them adopt? What changes would you like them to make?

bette06 · 11/05/2014 19:15

Ratbagcatbag: If UKIP get a large vote, the other parties will take notice but they'll conclude that people are really strongly anti-immigrant and really strongly anti-EU and will do even more grandstanding about that. I don't see how it's going to make them realise that you aren't that bothered about immigration and the EU and are concerned about other issues.