To think a scatterbrain can become organised?

[apachepony]

I am a bit scatty, messy and disorganised. It really affects my work performance, I haven't done very well in work recently but have just landed an exciting challenging new job. But I'm scared to accept it because I'm going to fail again unless I seriously get more organised, and work harder and more efficiently. Aibu to think that if I read up on time management and organisation, pick up some tips and train myself really hard to follow them, that I can become organised and efficient? Or am I just fooling myself? Has anyone any success in transforming themselves from scatty to organised?

No, I do have systems and I do the checks but currrently for reasons I won't go into, I'm moving around the building a great deal so have to pack up after each lesson. My keys, USB and pass are all on the same chain which lives round my neck except when attached to the computer. The problem is I have to move every lesson and for somebody like me, that is a challenge. i have never completely lost my keys in this job but I have had to run back to collect them on numerous occasions. There are often things that may distract me while packing away that cannot be ignored and I can't always do it slowly (otherwise I wouldn't make it to the next lesson). I was just pointing out that sometimes it is more challenging for some people.

On first impression I come across quite organised as I seem to have good systems and it isn't until people get to know me that they realise just why I have those systems.

But that's my point (and I do absolutely the same as you, move around the building for different lessons etc. and always in a hurry).

People who ARE organised (or "Born Organised" as Flylady says) DON'T leave their keys anywhere, and certainly not on numerous occasions.

I'm not quite sure how they manage it, but I guess they finish BEFORE the end of the lesson and say no or wait to someone who interrupts them while they are putting their stuff away.

I agree with Matilda about the lateness thing - I deal with 100s of students per week, some of them are always late - they always get caught out by a broken-down bus or car or can't park etc.

Some of them are NEVER ever late, they leave earlier when they have an important lesson to get to, even (especially) if they live far away.

I do a few things

I get in at least 20 mins before everyone else make a quick coffee and sort paperwork before the so begins. Check dates - talk to boss or whatever

Any minutes from meetings etc I transfer dates into my diary, any really important ones to my personal phone calendar too

Any paperwork - I cut out relevant bit and stick into diary (course venue details etc) so I don't have huge amounts of paper

I stay back 15 mins to make lists or the nex day

Now the lateness is something I haven't got to grips with. I'm alright with work but I'm dreadful getting anywhere else on time.

I seem to have an overly optimistic expectation of how long it takes to get out of the house especially when I genuinely have enough time. Drives me and everybody else (except my mum who is considerably worse than me) mad. Dealing with this is work in progress and I am better than I was but still not good enough.

This is a fascinating thread for me as a recovering disorganised person. I do think of it as an illness, or perhaps more as an addiction, and I despise myself when I give in to it.

The to do list is just vital. We are now required to keep our diaries electronically at work, I can't bear/can't be bothered? to duplicate the work to paper as well, and as a result I can feel my organisation slipping badly. I have a new job in the last month which requires me to move to a new office each half day, from which I then travel to different wards throughout the day backwards and forwards. I am really struggling to cope with the increase in moving around that this requires. And yet really, if my systems were robust, it shouldn't matter, or at least the adjustment should be quite quick.

The only tip I would have, and you can see from the above how much it's worth! is that saying to yourself 'I MUST BE ORGANISED' is not much use, you need to work out where the specific pinch points for you are and put systems in place that manage those pinch points. I think tell's post a few pages ago is fantastic, I am going to go back and look at that again.

sorry tigermoll's post. The cry for help/wanting to manage expectations factors would definitely explain why I've had a big upsurge in disorganisation with my new job, which I'm quite scared of. Dammit.

See I struggle like this because I have organisational issues (a little like dyspraxia), and am terribly forgetful. It stresses me out so that I am even more forgetful. Thing is I usually forget when people tell me to do something while I am already doing something they asked me to do. Now I try to have a post it note on hand to write down these requests.

BUT my biggest enemy is that I am a perfectionist and if I am not reaching my standard I start to criticise myself and probably mentally flap. I am always early as I see lateness as failure. Failure is a big deal for me and I have learnt I am very black and white about it, but only for myself, never others. So a little mistake (we all make them), is a failure if I make it. Then I get the word failure going round my head. SO I forget stuff because I am stressing about the wrong things.

Sometimes we need to take a step back and breathe and that can have a hugely positive effect on our effectiveness and scatterbrainedness. In other words, take a deep breath, relax and focus on one thing at a time.

I am still struggling to implement this because I am having "I am rubbish" moments too often. But still.

Focus, relax, write things down and do one thing at a time. Multi tasking involves switching complete focus frequently, but to actually do that you need focus on one thing at a time. Otherwise you will always forget something. That is what happens when you lose keys. Lack of focus. Concentrate and 'be' in the present. So don't think about what has to be done (you have a list for that), or what you have just done and think you have done badly or whatever, only what you are doing right now. Like I said, feelings of failure (rumination), and future failure (worry), is what scuppers my memory.

You sound fairly self critical. Try to have a bit of "I can" belief in yourself. You got the job, you can do it, do NOT worry about 'can't ' without actually doing. As I have learnt. You can't make a cup of coffee by thinking about it (no matter how organised you are), you need to simply act in an organised way (fill kettle, boil it, prepare cup etc etc). Ie. sometimes you simply need to act in an organised way to become more organised.

Sorry rambly, hope it makes some sense.

Sorry missed this advice I received.

Sometimes 'doing' comes before 'believing'.

Yes tigermoll identified some interesting underlying truths. I used to do the 'managing expectations' thing at school for a while, actually more about my own expectations so self-sabotage. I was scared of not achieving as well as I should, so went for not trying, so there were no meaningful expectations to meet. Of course the problem with that is gradually, the low standard becomes all you can achieve, all anyone will believe you can achieve and all you've got.

I have worked with someone who did that all the time though - did things in a deliberately casual, low effort way, so she could always say 'oh, I don't really know much about this, just doing my best with little time and knowledge' so either others had to step in and bear the weight of the task, or it would just stall, after wasting people's time - and it was maddening.

My thoughts were 'why not do your job and stop making shielding yourself from any responsibility or criticism your top priority, over everyone else's time, effort and professional integrity, you lazy, juvenile, self-absorbed twit'. It was transparent and such teenage behaviour. A classic case where the phrase 'it's not all about you' resonated.

So if anyone is doing that, don't imagine everyone else can't see what you're doing. You become the unreliable, time-wasting nightmare person. Though niceness can hold that at bay for a remarkably long time and the advantage of no-one wanting to work with you is you might have less to do.

I have 2 dd's and DD1 has well and truly inherited my scattiness whereas the DD2 hasn't at all. I worry for DD1 but also find the similarities fascinating and frustrating. We reckon that give it a few years and DD2 will be organising us all.

Mrsdo - lots of what you have said resonates with me although I'm not a perfectionist but my mum is and I think this is why she struggles to cope whereas I'm not so hard on myself.

I'm much much worse when I have migraine coming on and I'm much worse with verbal instructions than written instructions (hence why writing things down helps).

On lateness, I have two modes, a be on time, so actually a bit early, one and a casual, sometimes a little bit late one that I can slip into.

It's largely about whether it matters, that is whether you think it matters (the person you are late for may have other ideas).

There will be things you can be on time for. Really big important things, like flights, hospital appointments, exams, treats that you've been looking forward to. How do you manage it then? Generally, work backwards, allowing realistic time for every preceding stage, plus some contingency, plus a bit more. You need to apply the same priority and approach to everything.

Personally, I know I have a good internal clock, so when I am late, it is by a remarkably consistent amount. The internal awareness of time and of how long things take is there, I'm just choosing, sort of unconsciously but actually with full awareness, to apply it differently and indulge myself and my sloth, at the expense of the next task or person.

If you don't have an internal sense of time (e.g. Have never had a phase of waking five mins before your alarm goes off), my perspective won't help you.

lottiegarbanzo, I recognise myself in that description of your colleague. Dammit again. Whether or not that's specifically me you're talking about (do you work in healthcare by any chance?) it's a sobering description.

Marking my place...this is fascinating!
I think some people who are organised struggle to understand what it is like for people who are not. I'd love to put my keys in the same place every time- but if I was capable of remembering to do that I wouldn't class myself as a disorganised person! I put things down without thinking about it, my brain just doesn't work that way.

This is great, such insight and tips on here! And hope from the previously disorganised! I do try to write lists but sometimes am not thorough enough in following them, and I let myself get distracted too easily. Too interested in ideas sometimes, and not the execution...But I am determined to put systems in place to get over this.

Well just stop it

And no, not actually you. My only suggestion would be that recognising that getting the job done is more important than how you feel about getting the job done is actually quite liberating.

If you can focus on the task, on how it is actually going to get done and who needs to do what to make that happen and just stop worrying about what anyone thinks about your level of input, that will help a lot. If you admit your uncertainties or limitations to yourself, so ask for clarifications or help, or make sure someone else does the bits you're not sure about -but knows and accepts this from the outset - the job will get done to a high standard, which is what actually counts. Then people will think well of you for organising or being part of that.

If you were my colleague, I would say, don't then go and sabotage everyone else's hard work because you have so little confidence in your own opinions you always side with the last person you spoke to, or the one you perceive as being most powerful (easiest to hide behind) in any situation, even if they are actually ill-informed or an idiot, thus either creating endlessly moving goalposts for your colleagues or just undermining everything they have done, with and for you. Grrr.

I was very disorganised when I was a teenager and a young adult. It was definitely a form of resistance, a sort of passive rebellion against school and institutions. There was definitely a "fuck-you" feeling behind it if I was late to class or a study session. I had a turn-around when I saw how it was hurting my chances. I've kind of gone the opposite extreme now.

Sandthorn - your last point about allocating a proportionate amount of time each day, month etc - could you translate that into a clear example for me, please? How much time? And how do I know how long things will take?

I'm finding it hard to understand how I would put a lot of this into practice - and I sorely need to become more organised before I'm rumbled. I really want to be better.

Interesting that you mention migraines, whathaveiforgottentoday. I suffer terribly too and it definitely affects my memory. I find verbal instructions much harder to retain than written ones.

I also have a DS likely to be diagnosed with an ASD in the near future, and I feel that my own neurological make up is probably non-typical too. That's not to say some of the other observations of drivers of disorganisation don't also ring true.

Waveorcheer - i suspect i'm non-typical too and the same goes for DD1. I'm not overly keen on labelling but flit between thinking it would be lovely to say 'its because of this condition rather than me just being a bit crap' and thinking a label won't make the slightest bit of a difference and you just need to deal with it. I tend to favour the latter.

lottie - If you don't have an internal sense of time (e.g. Have never had a phase of waking five mins before your alarm goes off), my perspective won't help you. oh crap. I've have an appalling internal sense of time as shown by the fact without an alarm clock I haven't got a clue when I will wake up. I have 2 alarm clocks a DH and 2 smallish children so tend to get woken up nowadays. Interestingly, I have been late for some very important things so I know its not just because I don't care enough. I'm doomed aren't I?

I'm finding this thread fascinating.

To answer the original question- yes! I think a disorganised person can become more organised!

It does take practise, and of course learning how to do things differently.
But the key to change is you WANT to change.

I was very like you and I have adopted lots of little tips from training courses, and have become ultra organised at work. I now think that actually I have dyscalculia and all my systems I've put in place really help me overcome this. Here goes with my techniques-

List. You need a to do list. One it's nice to see everything ticked off. Two if it's humongous then clearly you have to schedule in time to get through it. Three you can show it to your boss and say- this is my to do list how would you like me to prioritise it. Do this for a few weeks until you get to know what your boss wants done first.

Look at your list and decide where the tasks fall in this matrix- quick/ long time to do vs difficult/ easy to do.
So decide when you can get the quick easy tasks done. Plan in the quick hard tasks, quick difficult tasks. And make a start on the long difficult tasks. And so chunk these down so you can put in your diary when you will work on them.

Which leads to the diary- outlook is marvellous for adding in reminders, to do list items. Yes you need to keep it up to date. But 20 mins per week updating it is worth it.
Plus outlook can be COLOUR CODED. no one else I've worked with ever uses this. But it's great. You can see at a glance- meetings, project work etc. (I put difficult stuff in red, lunch in grey, 121s in yellow, team meetings in green) and yes it would beep at me to remember to stop for lunch (I often forget).

Work folders- use slip folders & write on them using a sharpie ie 121 project x etc. then you just pick up the right folder, blank paper & a pen and you are good to go.

I even colour coded the blank paper I used to take my meeting notes on, as it helped me remember stuff. But that might be a bit extreme!

One last tip- Microsoft OneNote. Wow this is an AMAZING product. Evernote etc doesn't come close. 60 quid to buy the full version, it's recently gone free on the web as a cut down version. So you can try it at home to see if you get on with it.
You can clip web pages in, hyperlinks, and screen grabs.
Also anything you type is searchable, and it's super easy to add tags.

These 2 things mean it's v quick to recover info you need to know/ remember if you have a rubbish memory & you can bring your laptop into meetings.

Again you can colour code the pages to match outlook, to do list items sync in outlook. You can put emails (as a wee icon of an envelope) into the notes. It really is marvellous & very underused software. But perfect for the disorganised person striving for organisation.

Ok so that's a lot of info. But honestly I work like that and I don't miss stuff my boss is happy & I'm so much less stressed.

Hope some of those tips helps you!

You see with the keys, the point is I don't just naturally put them in the right place, it happens because I have a procedure and I follow it. (Which is why it comes to kind as an example, because, every time, I am aware that that didn't 'just happen'). It's especially important to follow it in atypical circumstances, as that's when they will otherwise be mislaid.

So it's sort of like having a regular chant, or call and response you do with yourself, prompted by a visual and physical cue - opening the door to go out, taking the key from the lock when you come in. It comes from practice and repetition. Just as playing something on the piano or driving or cooking becomes 'automatic', practice and repetition. So it takes a while and you have to persist.

I'm sure there are other methods, like visualising your keys as something very previous and vulnerable, like a baby dormouse, that you have to look after, so you get an emotional investment and cues. Or just tying them to yourself and only having one hook you hang them on at night, which is in your line of vision when you head to the door.

I'm no expert, just making the point that it's all about thinking, practising and learning. Yes that will be harder for some people than others but I also think some people just dismiss it as 'not for them' and don't try.

Hogwash that's brilliant!