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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

...to want to say 'honour and obey' in my vows?

521 replies

SteelyMindedLiberal · 08/05/2014 13:46

Background: we're both feminists. He's a strong personality, very intelligent, very loving, considerate, supports my career, does (more than) half the housework, cooking etc. We're not Christian or conservative.

But...

I am completely submissive to him and he sets the tone in every aspect of our relationship. Obviously there is a strong (and very hot!) BDSM undercurrent to all this. But it goes way beyond the bedroom: he leads, I follow, it's obvious and noticeable, and we both love it.

He's 'in charge'; never controlling. I am always listened to, and feel completely equal. I just do as he says and trust him to do the right thing. We're not ashamed of how we are, it's fundamental to us and because of that we want it to be included in our vows. He says it's up to me but he would like it very much, and I really, really want to say it.

BUT: it would mean outing our 'activities' to all our family and friends. I don't want our wedding to become all about that one line. Maybe no one would really care or give it any thought? We're happy to simply say: 'that's our dynamic and it works for us', to most people, but he has a 20-year-old daughter and it's her we're most worried about. She's sassy and worldly and she'd get it at once and probably be fine with it in private, but might find it really embarrassing and awkward... argh!

Help! It's the whole please ourselves or please others thing, I suppose...

OP posts:
Shallishanti · 08/05/2014 16:57

I don't really see how a sexual preference = being told what car to have

Original poster
SteelyMindedLiberal · 08/05/2014 16:57

Oh yes, he's a terrible creep. It's not like I asked for this, and told him he could be harder when he started out so gentle and tentative, and told him it's ok for him to be his natural 'in charge' self with me because I genuinely love it, even though he always tried so hard to temper it.

It's not like he sees how massively turned on I get when he spanks me or similar, and how incredibly content and sated I am afterwards. It's not like he wants to make me happy, or fulfill my deepest needs with this...

Oh, wait.

OP posts:
FatalCabbage · 08/05/2014 16:57

Private contract?

To be honest, that proves to me you're playing. Which is fine, and fun, and healthy. You won't explain it to the MN collective satisfaction, and that's fine too.

Original poster
SteelyMindedLiberal · 08/05/2014 16:58

I'm so glad I mentioned the car. It's not like anyone's used it to trivialise and mock this discussion or anything.

OP posts:
ginaschmeena · 08/05/2014 16:58

Um, yuck? Leaving this thread now. TMI!!

Lilka · 08/05/2014 16:59

I totally agree with you LoonvanBoon

On sexuality, children need to hear that there is no one right way of doing things, and I do see a problem with telling a child that there is a 'right' sexuality and 'wrong' sexuality, whether we're talking about sexual orientation, or certain sexual acts etc. Emphasising choice, and emphasising that ALL relationships (whether D/s or not) need to be founded on respect, trust and love, however exactly this is expressed.

subs aren't by definition non-assertive or unconfident people in their daily lives (they might say, run an office and have great leadership qualities and charisma), nor are Doms by nature controlling or unempathetic etc. You dont just 'submit' to anyone either. Like pretty much nearly all relationships, you don't go all the way at once, and meet one day and marry the next day and have the relationship you're going to have after years together. You build a relationship with time, with respect, and as trust grows (and trust which has been earned is a HUGE thing in most D/s relationships) you gradually give more of your submission in increments, as you both feel comfortable with, up to the level you are both comfortable with.

On a tangent now. Either way, there's nothing about the idea of D/s in itself which could preclude having kids

FatalCabbage · 08/05/2014 16:59

Forget the car. It made perfect sense to me!

Brittapieandchips · 08/05/2014 17:00

It is definitely a sexuality. It developed alongside the rest of my sexuality and personality, from a very young age, and I tore myself apart thinking I was an awful person for that.

It's not the same as gender preference, because I think that has a lot more going on and a lot more discrimination in general, but imagine being constantly told that what you fantasise about, what makes you feel happy and safe, what you enjoy, etc made you a bad person, a joke but also dangerous.

Why Mumsnet as a community seem to like joining in with the oppression of a lifestyle and sexuality not their own is beyond me.

Original poster
SteelyMindedLiberal · 08/05/2014 17:01

Yes, from Madonna aqua. I'm a pathetic person you see, with no mind of my own, so my sexuality and lifestyle is a construct borrowed from an aging idol.

Are you serious? Can you even see how offensive you're being? I don't deserve this, I really don't.

OP posts:
Martorana · 08/05/2014 17:01

I'm not using it to trivialise or mock the discussion. I just don't understand why you having a manual car makes it easier to car share, that's all.

And you still haven't answered the point about children in this relationship.

ICanSeeTheSun · 08/05/2014 17:01

Op I don't think you are explaining it very well.

My DH always picks the cars, as I am more swayed by the gadgets. DH looks at the boring stuff like tax, insurance common faults, safety aspect.

I see your relationship as a submissive is that you are allowed to make some choices, but when it comes to the big decisions you have no input.

Original poster
SteelyMindedLiberal · 08/05/2014 17:02

Britta: thank fuck for you. I feel under seige.

OP posts:
FatalCabbage · 08/05/2014 17:03

I think it's like having a boss at work, tbh. A good boss trusts his employees to get on with their jobs most of the time, and only "pulls rank" if they're going too far from the agreed plan.

Fairenuff · 08/05/2014 17:03

She's sassy and worldly and she'd get it at once

OP it's a little concerning that you think his 20 year old daughter would show any interest at all in your sex life.

How you get from 'traditional wedding vows' to 'his daughter will realise he's into bdsm' is quite astonishing Shock

Original poster
SteelyMindedLiberal · 08/05/2014 17:04

I have answered the children thing. Look up thread. I said it about a daughter because that's what people were talking about, but it would also apply to sons.

I think it's best we all forget about the car.

OP posts:
Martorana · 08/05/2014 17:05

Lila- so if, as the OP said, the dom is in charge of what the family does at the weekend, how do you address the issue of the children asking the sub if they can do one thing, and her having to tell them it's up to the dom to decide?

If the sub allows the dom to have the last word in every domestic issue,which is what the OP seems to be saying, how is that modelling a healthy relationship to children? Are daughters expected to submit to the dom as well?

CluelessCrapParent · 08/05/2014 17:05

I'm missing the point of this thread...what is your question OP ?

For us to tell you what to do or to decide for you what you should want?

Thurlow · 08/05/2014 17:05

LoonVan - I think most of us would think "fuck that" if told to deny our sexual needs in order to promote a non-patriarchal society. But that's what you're telling the OP to do

I agree. The OP and her DP have a d/s relationship in their private life. It's what makes them happy and, leaping to assumptions, also what they enjoy in their sexual relationship. I don't quite see how that somehow disqualifies her from having opinions of feminisms and equality of the sexes?

I do agree that bringing what is commonly a sexual element of a private relationship into your marriage vows and therefore the public arena probably isn't the most appropriate thing to do, especially if you don't want your family and friends to know about your d/s relationship. But if that's what makes you happy in your private life, fine. One person's happy home life is another person's nightmare.

Lilka · 08/05/2014 17:05

I don't really see how a sexual preference = being told what car to have

It's not really sexual preference at this point - D/s is about how you relate to each other on a much wider level than just in the bedroom. Your whole relationship is working on the dynamic that you both find very fulfilling

D/s relationships will by definition involve some elements of BDSM in the bedroom (not necessarily bondage or pain, but the dominance/submissive dynamic), BUT not all people who really enjoy BDSM in the bedroom, will be in a D/s relationship, in fact most of them won't be.

Original poster
SteelyMindedLiberal · 08/05/2014 17:06

It isn't astonishing. She knows me, she knows him, she knows we are the opposite to traditional, she will realise.

I know her, unlike you. I don't want to embarrass her. It's a moot point anyway, I think it's clear we won't be saying it.

OP posts:
LoonvanBoon · 08/05/2014 17:07

No, I don't think that would be okay, martorana, & I clearly said that above. The OP has given no suggestion that her partner's dominant role towards her would extend to a dominant role within the whole family, in which Dad gets to make unilateral decisions about what everyone does. There's also no sign that he takes that kind of role with the daughter he already has, is there?

Obviously that would be a different situation & one that personally I would see as negative in feminist terms, as opposed to neutral (which is how I'd understand the situation outlined by OP). I would actually be interested to hear how OP envisages whole family decisions being made, given the D/S dynamic with her partner. But she's probably buggered off, & I don't really blame her.

Amethyst24 · 08/05/2014 17:08

I can't help thinking that you would make the vow fully intending to break it, because if you always, without fail honoured and obeyed him then there'd be no spanking for you and presumably no getting off of rocks for him

Original poster
SteelyMindedLiberal · 08/05/2014 17:08

Clueless: the point was to see if saying those vows in a non-traditional setting would be a big deal, of any kind of deal.

I don't need other people telling me what to, ta. It was just a sound-out thread, like most of them on here.

OP posts:
LEDPenguin · 08/05/2014 17:08

You aren't alone, Steely. I don't feel qualified to help you explain, because although I've explored it in the past, I've come to the conclusion that 24/7 submission is completely unsuitable for me - I could never quite get my head around it. For me this is confined to bedroom activity only (I don't even particularly identify as submissive - if anything, I'm a masochist, and even that's a label I'm not totally comfortable with), but I have enough insight to not judge those for whom it isn't. I just can't help you explain.

And like many others, I recognise how it's something that you don't choose. It's just there, from a young age, and you recognise it and agonise over it because does it make you a bad person and a bad feminist and is there something wrong with you that you enjoy this? And that takes time, and you feel awful, and eventually you meet other people who have felt like that and suddenly you realise you're not a freak, and you have to offload years of internalised selfloathing.

grimbletart · 08/05/2014 17:09

OP - it's your life, do with it what you will and if you were totally happy with your choice you wouldn't give a flying monkeys what anyone else thinks and your wouldn't need to have come on to MN to discuss it.

Personally I'm just happy to exist in the 21st century as as an autonomous adult. If you want to play the faux child, well, whatever floats your boat.

But please don't insist you are a feminist. That is being in denial of gigantic proportions.

Funny how no many ever wants to say in his wedding vows that he wants to honour and obey his wife isn't it? Wonder why?