To have implied that I didn't need much parenting at 14? (Toxic mother)

[weatherall]

I have 'really hurt' my mother apparently.

We were out for dinner last night and she said that she hadn't heard of a magazine that was around 20 years ago because "she was too busy looking after me then". (Only child)

I quipped that I was 14 then so probably didn't require very much active parenting at that stage especially as I was out of the house 7.30-5.30/6 every day (private school/long commute).

I expected her to respond with a 'oh yes, I suppose 20 years ago you were a teenager not a toddler- how time flies '.

But no. She went in a strop. Was silent through the meal then made her own way home explaining to the DCs that 'she was very hurt'.

So AIBU?

Why did you feel it necessary to make the comment about her not parenting you much at 14.It may have been a quip to you, but I actually can see how she took offence
she was working her fingers to the bone to enable you to go to private school, plus she did all teh washing and cleaning and cooking your dinner most nights.All that is parenting you know.I think you should ring her up now and apologise

I am assuming that the background to this is casual conversation.

You mentioned a magazine, which she either never came across, or doesn't remember. I think she saw that as a personal criticism of her (not going to claim whether she was right or wasn't, because I wasn't there!)

She immediately responds to what she saw as criticism of her, with a passive-aggressive remark about how she was too busy being a mother to you, to notice magazines. With a healthy undertone of "how dare you not recognise the sacrifices I made for you, you ungrateful little sod", am I right?

When she did that, it naturally occurred to you, the target of this remark, that ackshurly, you didn't take up all her time, sixteen hours a day, and that you remember being the teenager she is blaming for taking up all her time, thank you very much. And so you pointed it out.

I don't think you were being unreasonable, but unfortunately, with that response, I think you gave her a peg on which to hang the offence she was already feeling.

She was unreasonable to try and bring your children into it.

*offended feelings she already had. Not offence

I can sympathise. My mum isn't toxic but she wasn't great during my early teens. To be fair, she was looking after my little sister who was very ill.

When I was 14, I went through a stage of dying my hair different colours. Mum jokes sometimes that I was trying to get her attention as she was so busy with dsis. However, that was far from the truth - the last thing I wanted was her attention as she was usually accusing me of doing things that I wasn't doing...

As a 14 year old, I was bloody hard work. My mum certainly had a lot of ackshual parenting to do, albeit different to the sort of parenting activities you have to do with a young, more dependent child.

I think unless your children are teenagers themselves, it's easy to underestimate the amount of time you give over to parenting them, whether it's physically being there to Do Stuff, or going out to work to earn the money to buy the things they demand Need.

I could understand any mother feeling hurt at a suggestion they didn't do much for their teenage child.

weatherall, does your mother have OCD?

If she does, be aware that it is a very distressing condition where the compulsions (which may, but usually do not, include house cleaning) are only part of the disorder.

If she doesn't, please stop using it to describe your mother's behaviour. You seem to be using it as a criticism - would you do that with other mental disorders?

Nah, course she had time to read a magazine. I read whole books and have kids.

Maybe she was working hard to pay for your private education too..

Well, my mother read books, broadsheet newspapers, tabloids, and magazines, and home-educated me (although not very well) when I was 14.

Parenting teens does take up time. More than you think.

But not to the extent that you can never read a magazine! Seriously, some people (usually women) like to talk it up as if it's a 24/7 rota of responsibilities.

OK so I'll concede that my quip was a little tactless. I should have just kept quiet, then moan to DP about it later as usual.

I suppose it did touch a raw nerve for her as she knows I think she was a bad parent, but it's one of those white elephants in the room no one ever discusses.

Yes, she worked a lot and did a lot of housework but that is because she is one of those people who can't sit still. She chose to spend her time ironing underwear and handkerchiefs rather than having a chat.

Yes, they paid school fees but these were a very small proportion of their income (a fraction of fees now). Most of their money went on bad business investments/decisions, cars (range rover/BMW/Mercedes), cigarettes 20-30each pd, £10 bottles of 'naice' wine every night, top brand food etc, regular cut and colour, home tech like £2k PC, £1k camcorder, etc. my point being that they weren't exactly making huge lifestyle sacrifices for my education.

I do resent that my mother frequently plays the martyr card, conveniently forgetting the past or that my generation can't have the lifestyle hers had. Sometimes that boils over into little quips.

I wish I had a mum I could have a normal relationship with but since I'm stuck in this cycle with her I can at least feel relief that I'll have a few months off from her now.

I think, that as another poster said, you're going to have to develop the "hmm" and subject change.

You can't control how your mother reacts to things. But you can control whether you give her the material for the drama.

FWIW, I'd say that, if someone chooses to toss some responsibility (whatever it is) onto the stage, then they cannot complain that a spotlight is shone on it. I am also certain you don't have a hope in hell of getting her to see that.

Doesn't matter if you put parenting, orchids, or being a neurosurgeon forth as a defense for not knowing something, instead of saying "huh, never picked up on that". People are going to look at the holes in the excuse, if you try and treat it as something to excuse. And if you try to blame the other people you're currently speaking to in the process of excusing yourself, the holes will be spotted at the speed of light!

If having one teenager means that a woman will be incapable of having the time to notice the existence of a magazine, presumably not a single active Mumsnetter has a teenager?

I am certain the OP's mother had some free time. She simply had other ways of spending it than WHSmith. Which is absolutely fine. I don't notice new magazines coming out now, and probably won't when the kids are older. Not because they take up every minute I'll ever have, but because I will continue to spend my leisure time, however limited, on library books and mumsnet!

OP, I mean this in the nicest possible way but have you considered finding a psychotherapist? Don't want to me-rail your thread but my relationship with my mother used to be riddled with all kinds of complicated resentments. It isn't any more, and I think that's largely down to my deciding that spending a chunk of time in therapy was a sound investment in myself.

She has mellowed as we both got older (I'm 35 now) but therapy also helped me change my perspective, not to mention giving me somewhere non-judgemental to vent. Our relationship is much the better for it.

It sounds as though you're basically OK as you are but that you and she are stuck in a kind of pernicious pattern. It sounds to me as though you might feel some freedom and relief working that stuff through.

OP, can completely sympathise. My DM has a view of the past that I was a happy child, well taken care of. My view is that I took care of myself as for the most part I was ignored. E.g. we were talking about her cooking at the weekend and I said that when I turned vegetarian at age 9, she said that she wouldn't cook for me anymore so I started cooking for myself - she can't /won't remember that. I don't think she'll ever realise the difference between what I felt and what she thinks I felt.

Yes ,people's perceptions of their childhoods differ vastly in hindsight.

My four children range from 'looking for someone like Mum' to marry to 'how the hell could you and Dad even think of doing that?

We are cool with it,because those who have children will inevitably be in the same position one day!!Laugh out loud!!

she didn't 'choose' to have me- she didn't realise she was pregnant until it was too late for an abortion

You should never have been told that! I get the bitterness now.

OT- my DP has suggested psychotherapy.

Maybe next year when I might be able to afford it.

Mamma- she didn't tell me this, I overheard her telling a friend when I was 15/16. She doesn't know I know.

I feel quite contented now knowing I can have a few months off from having to play nice around her.

I wish I could get the message about all of this through to mt DP.

I totally sympathise OP. While my parents aren't toxic (were just very self absorbed), they had a self imposed 'busy' life and social life, so that i was very much an after thought and often felt like an inconvenience to be dealt with. By the time i was 14 i was pretty much out of the house all the time which they rarely enquired about.

If/when they mention their 'parenting' and how busy they were with me it makes me furious. Even more so now i am a parent myself. However, we do have a good relationship now. Now i have learned to control the environment and implement boundaries.

I don't see anything wrong or hurtful about your comment, if it was the truth. Will she sulk then get over it? or make it into a big drama? I would just carry on as if nothing had happened if it were me and if she said anything i'd tell her factually how you feel. and let her pick the bones out of that! (my parents never ask me about their parenting now, because they know what i will say and they are not prepared to hear it).

Why do you bother with her?

"She went to a secondary modern" snobtastic!

I feel a bit sorry for your mummy, sound like she really worked hard to build a good life for her family and send you to good schools. Your comments about it only costing a fraction of their salary misses the point.

The relationship seems toxic from both sides, not just her towards you. I'm wondering whether a bit of counselling might be a good idea.

The secondary modern comment wasn't nice at all. Do you say stuff like that to her? Or just about her?

Sorry op as you are obviously upset but some of your comments, especially the ones about her going to a bad school are vile really. Presumably her money paid for you to be so superior.

I would let go of the past and concentrate in building the best relationships with your own dcs. For your sake.

Re: the school comment, it is her who said she could never help with high school homework because she went to a junior high/secondary modern. I mentioned it because I anticipated posters saying 'well a 14yo would be getting help with homework' . This wasn't true in my case, so I have the reason why.

People here are really naive if they think paying school fees = good parents.

My mother spins this line too. She thinks it absolves her from all her (abusive) behaviour.

Oh and it was 'school' not schools- 5 years if £3k fees out of £100k income.

She worked hard because she likes to be busy/ workaholic not for my benefit. Eg she chose to work on Xmas day (leaving me home alone). She just wasn't a 'family' person.

I'll not hear from her for m