To think that YES, you can have reasonable hours and a good work/life balance as a teacher

[WistfulForTravel]

I'm 22, a 3rd year Primary Education BEd student, I love my degree and every assignment and placement cements the fact that teaching is my vocation and is what I want to do as a career.

However, I've been getting a lot of negative comments from my aunties and neighbors about how I'll never have a life again, how most of my waking hours will be consumed with thoughts of work, how I'll never even have one day to truly relax during the 13 weeks off, how it'll be a 7am - 9 pm job, etc.

I know teaching is more full on than some jobs, but is it really this intense? I am friends with a few teachers and they seem to have a healthy work/life balance (time for guys/sports/hobbies, at least one full weekend day off, out 1-3 nights a week) They have no kids though. I imagine it would be very different when you have kids.

Is it possible to practice effective time management + work very hard during the week so you can have the weekend off?

As much as I've enjoyed my course and look forward to my first class in September (eek!) my philosophy is more a 'Work to Live' not 'Live to Work'

I apologise for the confusion Jenny.
Yes... I think you're right... this is a bit of a 'doh!' moment for me! For instance I went on holiday over Easter and read curriculum books on the beach the whole time.

oh and apologies to those who thought i was saying primary school teaching is easy or easier. i was trying to see in what ways it perhaps would be easier/could give the OP the impression teaching was easy etc.

i was trying to think of what things might be easier (re: ok less kids to deal with, less behaviour chase up for example). i'm sure i could think of things that would be harder too.

HoneyBadger I certainly haven;t lectured ANYONE on how easy teaching is. I've said I seem to find PGCE slightly easier and less stressful than some of my fellow students. In no way have I presumed to lecture anyone and I only mentioned the positive comments of "you're a natural teacher" etc in response to being told I must be crap. I certainly don't think I really am a natural/born/whatever teacher - I'm not sure that exists.

Your experience sounds horrendous and I really do hope that doesn't happen to me to the same extent - but I'm prepared that it might. It's terrible that great teachers are leaving the profession in droves.

'Yes, but is this right? I think it's totally wrong that you are expected to do this. '

Depends. Some of it is patently bollocks, & I defer to no-one in my bolshiness when this is the case.

For example, I teach a year 8 class twice a week, I've been teaching this particular Scheme of Learning for five years, & I wrote the bloody thing. My planning for this group consists of a tatty copy of the SOL, on which I scribble a few notes re: differentiation. Usually on stickers or Post-Its as it's already got 4 years of notes on it in 4 different colours!

I have told SLG that if they really think it's a good use of my time to spend even your '20 minutes' copying & pasting bits of it into individual lesson plans twice a week, that's fine, but they can get some other mug to run some of the trips & afterschool tuition that I currently use that time to organise.

My planning for my key GCSE groups, though, is done from scratch & in response to what they actually need. For example, it took me roughly 6 hours last night to put together a mocked up exam practice paper & all the paper & interactive resources I'm going to use with it this week with my middle set year 11s. I'm currently skiving off my year 10 exam marking because I need to set each of them individual targets & it's a tedious PITA which has taken me 4 hours already today.

All of this is documented in my lovingly produced Excel planners, which take bloody hours, but amply demonstrate what I'm doing for each of the 90 KS4 kids I teach this year exactly how I'm going to get them their target grade or better.

which is lucky, because we have a work sample every half term whereby each member of staff is required to submit one class's books AND all the planning for that group for the half term, so that SLG can go through it with a fine-tooth comb.

But more to the point, it forces me to really think about how I'm going to get the best out of each student. I see detailed planning as being much more about differentiation than it's about throwing together a quick 20 minute lesson plan.

LeP - sorry - i might have been a tad over derisive there. i hope it doesn't happen too.

sadly they are leaving in droves. i did 4 years then came out for a long time then went back in last year and am leaving again soon. it might all be a bit 'fresh' for me at the minute.

My school is looking for a cheap, cheerful NQT. To take over my class next year. 31 kids, no TA, 5 EBD, one of whom barks or miaows constantly, 4 EAl, half the class SA/SA*, no parental support at all and a huge amount of pressure. Oh, and no SMT support either, unless you count being observed. Even the behaviour lady threw up her hands and patted me on the back. Go on, you know you want to.

If my class were a smashing setted top grammar lot, my planning would take minutes. As I am planning for students from wa to 5b, It can take a while.

Planning my A2 history often took 20 mins, because i'd written my SOW over summer and made all thw resources. Planning one english lesson with my class now takes longer because they are all at such varying levels, non setted and I have to factor in the barking/miaowing, the ebd, the no TA, and still prove they are allmaking progress.

I say to pamplewhatever, "when you have walked a mile..."

We do need blind optimism in this profession, who else is going to do it, but it speaks volumes that your job is in a nice school. Do your stint there, then join us at the coalface. You will not believe how much you don't know. It's a shame the BYT ' s are not attracted by us sink feeders, we really need enthusiasm. It does your teaching the world of good, btw. Writing for 30 minutes. Try that in any school other than a nice grammar or indie. I can do it. I have done it, for progress writes. But i don't do it because it really isn't engaging or inclusive. For one thing, what am I doing with my "only knows 2 words of English" kids? Or my adhd kids? And so on. I think you had soft placements. Mine were in Hackney.

raven I know what you mean about differentiation and getting the best out of each student, but surely although your Excel document method works for you, good planning can also be something that mostly takes place 'in your head'? As in, constantly thinking about your students and their attainment levels and how you can guide them towards the next step. Why should it have to be documented as long as you are getting the results?
I just don't think 20 minutes is even that short a time, anyway. I know experienced teachers who would take 10 minutes.

phlebas, my job is in a nice school in a nice area but my placement certainly isn't. And I certainly don't think my planning would take 20 minutes for the group you describe. I do have a Year 11 class who take a lot longer to prepare for. I'm not saying I think it'll be easy, I'm saying so far, luckily for ME personally, I've found the PGCE slightly easier than I was told it would be.
NQT may be the total opposite.
What is a BYT?
I'm not saying I'd get any class to write for 30 mins - just ONE of my very nice year 8 groups. I'm at a state comprehensive, not in a middle-class area and it's not a 'cushy' school. I am now moving to an outstanding comp in September but I definitely do not want to stay there for life - I hope to stay there a couple of years before moving to a school in a different area, as I'm very left-wing and to be honest it doesn't sit entirely comfortably with me teaching in a school in a middle class area. But I loved the school and the department so I went for it.

also worth bearing in mind that your uni sends you to schools deemed acceptable as placements and they also tend to be schools that are reflective and proactive through their links with uni's and role in training.

That's true, HoneyBadger.
Anyway, I feel like I've spent far too long defending myself now. I was just trying to share my views with the OP, not lecture any experienced teachers. I think some of you are using me as a scapegoat for your own, often justified, anger and irritation towards schools which are these days showing a preference for young, naive NQTs. I hope that through some of the comments I've made about not bowing to SLT's every whim, some of you will realise that this is actually not what I'm like at all.

the thing is in most schools if your 20min observation slot coincided with your year 8's writing for half an hour you would fail. end of. they didn't see active learning, they didn't see discussion, they didn't see differentiated outcomes etc.

Yes, I know that HoneyBadger, believe it or not I'm not stupid. Therefore I wouldn't do that for an observed lesson in a school even though I KNOW my kids enjoy it and learn a lot from extended writing, every now and then.

Anyway, kids are active and creative when they are writing a story, and we would have had discussion at the beginning and end of the lesson, but unfortunately SLT are too bloody stupid to realise that most of the time.

some schools have a SLT can walk in any time to observe policy and teachers live in a perpetual awareness of that - especially a school that has done badly at ofsted and gone into that kind of ramped up anxiety and pressure state.

i totally agree btw about the learning merit and better ways of teaching - that's not the issue sadly - the issue is what is forced upon you and not what is about good teaching. that in fact is one of the shittiest most frustrating things about teaching being forced to do it badly in order to be seen as good

anyway i wish you every luck and hope you find a good fit school for your nqt year.

"SLT are too bloody stupid to realise that most of the time" .

Gosh - the thought of someone in SLT working in at any time to observe is horrible if they are an ineffective and/or incompetent SLT.
It does sound like teachers are put in a horrible position of powerlessness in that situation.
Anyway I'm going to duck out of this thread now as speaking of work, I should actually do some!
Yep Gruffalo, some SLTs are stupid! They did their PGCEs back in the mists of time and have swallowed outdated Ofsted directives etc. Surely you don't think every SLT is excellent? Some are, of course.

Your arrogance is staggering.

No, I am not that naïve, but sweeping generalisations much! A trainee teacher assuming they know better than experienced SLT? SLTs may have done "their PGCEs back in the mists of time", but we are mostly still at the chalk face every day (planning and teaching outstanding lessons whilst juggling all the other leadership requirements), so to assume a trainee knows better is indicative of some of the trainees we have had; the makings of a really good teacher, but too arrogant to listen to more experienced colleagues, so sunk within a year or two of entering the profession. Our biggest question to placement schools when recruiting is whether a NQT will be able to develop by accepting the advice of others. We would rather appoint a "good" teacher we can support and develop, than a currently "outstanding" one that thinks they are god's gift and know it all already.

'I know experienced teachers who would take 10 minutes'

...or no minutes at all, for that matter. I frequently wander into my nice biddable year 8's lesson vaguely wondering aloud where we got up to last time, & print out anything that's needed whilst doing a quick starter activity.

But no, good planning doesn't just take place in my head, although the constant thinking certainly accompanies it.

It frequently requires me to produce a tailored resource for a group or even an individual student, & if I've spent an hour putting together a task which pinpoints the precise skill a particular three students in my top set year 10 group need to answer question 2 of the Eng Lang Higher, I'd just as soon not have forgotten which three kids it is by the time I see them...so it's in that group's planner, along with who missed a session on their last Controlled Assessment & needs to make it up, & what I'm going to do with the appalling girl my colleague has dumped on me, who's doing Foundation & needs entirely separate work...

The documentation of my planning for other people is a separate issue, & I agree that it's micromanaged more than is helpful in plenty of schools (including my own).

Having said that, 'as long as you are getting the results' is a weaselly sort of thing to rely on. I've currently got one year 11 group who all have B/C targets, based on their KS2 SATs, but their attainment throughout KS3 & KS4 has been disappointing - which is why they're in a group together, doing Foundation. So they can't get above a B, & that's going to be an almighty stretch for some of them. So my residual for that group is inevitably going to be negative (whereas my other, high-flyer group should do very well).

The fact that I have detailed planning covers my arse when the HT scrutinises the eight year 11 groups in August, spots the one group with the crappy residual & makes a mental note of which useless waster on his staff was teaching that lot...it's the culture we function in, I'm afraid.

Gruffalo I do NOT think I know better than SLT - far from it. However, I have some truly outstanding university lecturers and tutors who I respect a lot more than the SLT in my school. I can assure you now I do disagree with some members of SLT at my school on some matters but obviously I would never say that in a million years. I would never dream of being so disrespectful as a student, but don't we all have our private opinions? Have you never worked somewhere where you've not respected your boss? In my first placement school, SLT were amazing and I respected them completely, but that's not the case where I am now. That's not arrogance. That's having a (silent) opinion.

I'm an experienced maths teacher. I can plan lessons on the back of a postage stamp - all I need to write down is the page number of the appropriate textbook exercise I'll set them off on once I've taught them how to add fractions or whatever.

I do know, however, that I could certainly teach much better lessons if I spent a bit more time on my planning, if I created a resource personalised to that classes needs, or found a better activity on the TES website and put the resources together.

Being able to plan a lesson in minimal time isn't really the sign of a great teacher. I know that when I am short of time (which is always at the moment, I have a one year old), I cut my planning down considerably, but that's not great for my classes, because it means cutting corners.

I wouldn't be proud of planning lessons in ten minutes or ashamed if I spent 2 hours on one. I would hope that at the end of the two hours I would have something really worthwhile for my class. And that does take time.

raven Thanks for your post, that's a really helpful explanation of your planning - I'll definitely bear that in mind next year re: accountability and planning for Y11 etc.

To answer the OP: I've been teaching 8 years and although find the job difficult and at times exhausting, I seem to have a fairly good work/life balance.

I'm deputy head of English, teach mostly key exam groups and am a respected and good teacher. I arrive at school around 8am and other than the two evenings a week when there are meetings or after school classes, I try to be home between 4.30-5pm. This time is then purely for my children. They are in bed by 7.45 and then I work until 10.30 Mon-Thursday. I will also work some Sunday evenings. However, I don't work Friday evening, Saturdays or Sunday daytime. I am very strict about this - if my children are awake and I am home, my time is for them.

Most of my holidays are just that - holidays. I might work a couple of nights or go into school for the odd day during the summer but the days of working all day throughout the holidays are behind me. I won't do it now and find that I don't need to anymore. I try to keep work in perspective. My job is important, but kids come first. I would find it very difficult to leave teaching for another profession as the decent money I make and the long holidays make it ideal for my family life.

Having said all of that, I work in an outstanding school with a very supportive SLT. I also have a supportive husband and my mom and dad pick up the child care in term time. We are very lucky. So I suppose I'm saying that a decent work/life balance can be achieved in teaching if you are strict with your time, are careful about the school you choose and are lucky enough to have a good support network.

I am amazed at the amount of schools that don't require proper, formal written plans! The school I was in recently required a plan for every lesson broken down into:

lesson intention
Lesson content
Details of four way (minimum required) differentiation
Resources
Assessment opportunities
Key skills (NC)
Key skills (LNF)
How it ties in to the schools improvement plan

And then a section for you to evaluate your teaching and a separate section to evaluate the learning.

Our folders were collected on Monday mornings and 'marked' on our self and learner assessments for the previous week and also for the lessons for the upcoming week. If I ever walked into school having spent 20 minutes planning a lesson (I'm only on my second year of teaching) and had no proper, formal, paper version of my lesson plan for every single lesson I was going to teach that day/week I would have been hauled into the office and shot. One member of SLT told me that they had sacked people for teaching a lesson without a lesson plan before.

That has meant that, over the two academic years I was in the school, at one point I was printing 30 detailed lesson plans a week, which were two sides of a4. That was when I was a reading recovery teacher.

I have recently had my own Nursery class, where not only did I do the same amount of planning but I also was expected to plan my areas in detail, with evaluations afterwards. My assistants were also expected to 'plan' and self evaluate.

Regarding hours - when I worked as a PPA teacher I could leave at the end of the school day, maybe 4ish, but once I gained my own class, I was in at seven, worked through lunch, didn't leave until the cleaner kicked me out at 6. I begged to be let in to my class at the weekends for half of the weeks during the half terms and worked until 10.30 each night. I would also work all day Sunday. I chose to do it because I wanted my classroom to be perfect, my resources to be perfect and of course I didn't have a choice with the paperwork and I would do it again in a heartbeat, but my god it was exhausting. Wonderful, but almost debilitating!

This thread has been really enlightening for me as I had absolutely no idea that so many schools required detailed lesson plans to be submitted for every lesson! I don't know quite why I find that so shocking, but I do. I suppose it just shows a lack of confidence or faith in teachers' abilities, which is sad.