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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to be absolutely shocked at my friend attitude towards her landlord and her not want to move out ???

257 replies

SpikeHairandFab · 28/04/2014 13:57

Hi, I just need to get some perception ,sorry ,I am afraid it is going to be long
My friend is buying house, she has wasted almost 5 months waiting for her dream house but she didn't get it at the end ( due to some massive muck up from vendor side, not her fault) . Now she is in process to buy a new house. Everything is o.k with this one ,she will move in at the end of June.
The problem is her landlord has served her a notice to vacate the house . It was served in Jan ,and her last day should be 24th of May. But she saying she will not move out, she will stay 5-6 weeks longer, even though her landlord sold the house he is living in now, and he want to move to the house she is renting from him.
I tried to explain to her that she really need to move out,as it is not fair on her LL , that he has given her enough time to sort something out ,and that the Law is on his side , but she saying she has nowhere to go, and she can't rent anything short term ,as it is going to be expensive. She also saying that he will have to get her to court , and that will buy her around month or so, she thinks there will be no consequence at all , she will go when she is ready , and she doesn't give a sh@t about her LL. Also she said she will stop paying him rent from 25th May , as he getting her to court !!!! I this point my jaw just dropped to the floor
I know she has 3 kids and therefore a lots of stuff , but it seems like she is trying to get advantage (not paying rent) out of this whole nasty situation.
I am really trying hard not to be judgy ,but I can't help, she is in very tough situation but I think she should at least try to do something.

Is she right that there will not be any consequence at all? She said she was reading some forum and that she got that info out from it.

She is my very good friend and even though I don't like what she's doing ,I really need to help her(not that she asked for any help). I have offered her to borrow some money , but now I am more concerned about what she is getting herself and her family in to by not moving out.
Will she get any record ?
Any advice would be highly appreciate .
Thank you for reading

OP posts:
yellowdinosauragain · 29/04/2014 07:09

Having 3 kids has nothing to do with it. When we were in a similar situation (albeit between house sale and purchase) we had 2 children aged 3 and 1 and we rented a house for 2 months. They can be found,as I explained up thread, if you are bothered to look. We even had to factor in finding somewhere they were happy for us to keep our 3 cats. And with regards to moving twice we simply packed everything up except stuff we'd need for 2 months and left the rest in boxes.

We're not rolling in it either. Our house sold for the very least we could sell it for without going into negative equity so no spare cash lying around to make this affordable.

I do appreciate the timings of this were more within our control, although if we hadn't sold at the time we did our house sale would have fallen through.

If your friend put her mind to it she could sort put something similar. She just doesn't want to, preferring instead to make it her landlords problem. Shame on her.

wowfudge · 29/04/2014 08:35

Aga - why the reference to race? A person who commits a crime does a disservice to society as a whole. A tenant who behaves like the OP's delightful friend ultimately worsens the lot of other tenants and prospective tenants as they are made to jump through hoops in order to rent because LLs (quite rightly) want as much reassurance as possible that their property is let to a decent person who won't mess them around, fail to pay the rent or trash the place.

Just as bad LLs who mistreat tenants or fail to respond to issues with their property can give all LLs a bad name leading to the flaming LLs get from some quarters on MN.

lionheart · 29/04/2014 09:13

She should have found somewhere if it was possible but she needs to pay the rent.

What about if the LL, who is about to be homeless has four kids with no roof over their heads now?

ballinacup · 29/04/2014 09:15

Okay, imagine your bank manager telephones you one day and says he's calling in your mortgage, you have x amount of notice to move out. You ask why. Because it's my property, he says, and I quite fancy living in it for a while.

That would, obviously, be totally outrageous and unfair. So why is it okay to do it to a tenant?

Fleta · 29/04/2014 09:32

ballinacup - the two situations are not remotely similar and cannot for a minute be compared.

When a bank gives someone a mortgage, they don't own the property. What they do have is the right to take the property as an asset if the loan is not paid, by each monthly payment you lower the loan. Mortgages do not (or usually do not) cover the cost of the entire property.

Renting doesn't give you that - it is just a short term contract to USE a property. You don't go any part towards owning by the monthly payments.

pianodoodle · 29/04/2014 09:41

I can understand not wanting to move twice with 3 children for the sake of a month or so.

I would explain nicely why I needed to stay the extra time, and make sure I paid rent to cover the period.

ballinacup · 29/04/2014 09:48

Ah I see, Fleta, so only those lucky enough to have a mortgage should be entitled to a secure roof over their head? Thanks for clearing that up for me.

MaryWestmacott · 29/04/2014 09:48

Ballinacup - because the bank manager doesn't own the house, the bank lent some money, at most they could do is call in the debt, how you paid that debt is up to you, but if you say, got another loan from a different bank to pay back the original one, that would be fine. In a mortgaged situation, you have bought your property, having borrowed money to do so. In a rental situation you have borrowed (for money) something that belongs to someone else.

But as I said earlier, this is interesting to read, just how many people think that all that matters is if she can get away with it or not. It really worries me just how many people clearly only obey laws and rules because they fear the concequences, not because they feel any moral obligation. That right there, is what is wrong with our society. And it's at every level, from people screwing over landlords at the bottom of the pile, to multinationals not paying tax because they can, with people dropping litter when noone can see them, to MPs expensing everything even if it clearly isn't an expense, to bankers taking huge bonuses. Just because you can do something doesn't make it right. Not caring about what is right, just what is possible, is a shitty way to live. The older I get, the more I realise people like this aren't worth having in your life.

AWombWithoutARoof · 29/04/2014 09:51

ball, you're being obtuse. Following your argument all tenants should be on indefinite agreements allowing them to live in a house until they die.

ballinacup · 29/04/2014 09:52

And is it right to put the person that's been paying your asset down onto the streets for the sake of 5/6 weeks? There's a worrying 'tenants are a subclass' attitude in Britain today.

Why should she shove off into temporary accommodation that she can't afford just because it best suits the LL? Like I said, you'd be pretty fucking furious if your mortgage lender did it to you.

grovel · 29/04/2014 09:53

Well said, Mary. We have a self-contained flat in our house which would make a lovely home for a small family. We don't let it out because we've heard so many stories of shitty behaviour by tenants.

ballinacup · 29/04/2014 09:53

Well done Womb, for finally suggesting an option that makes sense! Secure, lifelong tenancies that benefit those that have been shafted out of the housing market.

Fleta · 29/04/2014 09:56

I can't decide being deliberately obtuse ballinacup or it is just flowing naturally?

You brought up the analogy of mortgages. I was merely pointing out why you were wrong. And yet you've tried to labour the point again.

I don't for a minute think a tenant is a "subclass". What I do think is that NO tenant deserves to live in a property for free. By all means I think it behoves LLs to be willing to be flexible. If I were the LL I wouldn't be expecting for the sake of a few weeks to throw someone on the streets (which in this situation, give she's buying a house seems VERY unlikely) but I would be expecting them to continue to pay rent for remaining in the property.

Fleta · 29/04/2014 09:57

Lifelong tenancies don't make sense for ANY party

jacks365 · 29/04/2014 09:58

Some of us think that the landlord being able to throw a good tenant who pays her rent out is pretty shitty and that a landlord has a moral duty too.

ballinacup · 29/04/2014 09:59

Why is it unlikely that she will be on the streets just because she's buying a house?

When DH and I bought very recently, our funds were completely wiped out by moving costs etc, we simply wouldn't have had the money to pay 50/night b&b fees for 5/6 weeks beforehand, plus storage of furniture.

Again, I have said, repeatedly, that she should pay her rent until she leaves.

MaryWestmacott · 29/04/2014 10:00

ballinacup - the OP's friend has had notice since January - she has had lots of time to move out. She could have requested leaving earlier if that would suited to take a longer tenancy elsewhere. Now it's so late, that someone is going to have ot go in temporary accomodation, and understandably, the landlord doesn't want it to be them, the person who owns the house.

Tenants aren't a 'subclass' but when it comes to all assets in the UK, owning that asset gives you much more control than borrowing it.

I would be fucking furious if my mortgage provider tried to throw me out, but as they don't own my house, they would have no more right to throw me out of it than you would if you just walked up and decided you fancied living here instead. Because mortgage isn't me paying money in order to have a right to live in a house, it's just paying back a loan that happens to be secured on this house that I own.

ballinacup · 29/04/2014 10:04

Also, there has been mo suggestion by the OP that the tenant has been anything other than exemplary. You should not be able to lose your home on someone else's whim.

riskit4abiskit · 29/04/2014 10:04

I have many friends who CHOOSE to rent for whatever reason, they pay more rent than I do mortgage so I don't think being unable to get a mortgage is always a factor.

I thought the whole concept of renting was that it is temporary (in theory) and that you agree to that when you sign the lease? Otherwise why would there be fixed dates on the contract whereby it is renewed or ended. If you wanted a lifelong tenancy why not get a mortgage?

riskit4abiskit · 29/04/2014 10:10

But its not your house so you ARE at the whim of another.

My wise dad said once that a house was only bricks and mortar and its the people and their lives that make it a 'home'. So many people have to move several times over a life, especially those who scrape onto the housing ladder and then later save for a family house, downsize after children, move to assisted living. Not to mention moving in and out of partner's houses as relationships change, living in student housing etc. People move all the time renters and buyers alike!

ballinacup · 29/04/2014 10:10

Ah yes riskit, I'm sure that 1000s of people hadn't thought of 'just getting a mortgage'! How silly of them! You should let them all know, you'll be hailed a philanthropist!

RiverTam · 29/04/2014 10:15

the LL isn't 'throwing her out' jacks - he has given her 4 months notice to leave. Throwing her out would be telling her she had to be gone in a week. He hasn't done that.

I'm really puzzled by those who think it's fine for the LL to be homeless for potentially 5-6 weeks (or for him to move into a short-term let) because this woman is refusing to move. She's had a house purchase drop out on her, you would think she would appreciate that if he's selling he will have arranged a completion date with his buyers and that if he pisses them around he may well end up losing his buyers. There is a chain of people involved here, but she (and her backers on this thread) seem to think no-one matters but her.

AWombWithoutARoof · 29/04/2014 10:15

Some of us think that the landlord being able to throw a good tenant who pays her rent out is pretty shitty

The emotive language, "throw a good tenant out", still doesn't disguise the fact that tenancy agreements are for a FIXED TERM. Nobody is being "thrown out", notice has been given in accordance (presumably) with the terms of the contract that BOTH SIDES SIGNED.

I'm not a LL, by the way, but I rented for 20 years before I bought, and there's no way I would ever have pulled a stunt like this.

riskit4abiskit · 29/04/2014 10:16

Im not saying everyone everywhere could get a mortgage in the area they wanted, especially in the last few years but prior to the economic decline and more lately mortgages have been easier to get.

like everything its not black and white

BoffinMum · 29/04/2014 10:18

If people want more stability they can always ask to sign a longer lease. My current tenants are on a two year lease. You do not have to go with a six month assured short hold tenancy if you don't want to.