Circumcision: A Social Status in the UK ?

[Amazonia]

Curiously in the UK, circumcision is now a matter of social class. While the "ordinary" folks rarely circumcise, circumcision is prevalent in the upper class as well as in the Royal family.

The problem is, math, that MN don't seem to agree with you about these alleged wholesale breaches of their guidelines. Because the posts you complain about have been up for hours without any action being taken by them.

Fortunately, it's abundantly clear in this thread who has really led the way in distasteful posts - and it's pretty clear that the majority know the score there.

is it offensive for math to repeatedly assert that people smell of stale urine, sweat and smegma?

Maybe nobody has reported them?

I genuinely have never seen the issue with hygiene and foreskins.

I have sons and they have always (or it feels like always) known how to wash properly. As has dh! And every other man I've known very well. Just as I know how to keep my vulva/vagina spick and span, and to floss my teeth and brush them. It's just part and parcel of care of oneself. I would baulk at removing teeth unnecessarily in order to avoid potential problems in the future. Though one of my primary teachers 35 years ago (who was then in his early 60s) had asked for all his teeth to be removed to save bother.

It really hasn't been any trouble teaching my sons how to keep clean and there's the advantage of not having had part of them removed as infants unnecessarily. I will of course be recommending condom use when the time comes. I suppose in terms of the link between penile cancer and HPV, the fact that the majority of girls of their age and older are having the HPV jab (will include my dd when she's older) will help, but first and foremost, safe sex is the way to go.

Have a very male heavy family, am only girl in whole of my generation. Have heaps of nephews on my side of the family, and on dh's too. Totting up there must be about 26 boys/men. Out of which one, my cousin, has a medically required circumcision at 4 because he had hypospadias and in order to fix that, the circumcision was recommended as part of the op.

I don't see how alleging that people wash every 24 hours can possibly be offensive.

As it turns out, I was being charitable when it comes to British people anyway.

So maybe you should thank me for giving the benefit of the doubt when clearly it wasn't warranted.

No, math, if you haven't reported posts, clearly no-one else will have, because no-one else thinks they are in breach of MN rules.

Or maybe a lot of people are equally as unconcerned about MN guidelines as those who post offensive personal digs and insults?

What you said, math, was that uncircumcised men tend to smell of smegma, sweat and urine. Which is not only untrue but pretty offensive.

I think that may be a national attack - is that worse than a personal attack...

I mean there are 65 million of us who've just been insulted.

here are examples of personal insults by math, in which she untruthfully alleges that a person, talking about non-faulty body parts being cut off, is therefore a supporter of FGM, and makes related untrue smears.

She repeatedly alleges that a person who is opposed to routine circumcision without medical need is a misogynist.

"your use of the terms 'modified' and 'unmodified' is a disgusting example of attempts to equate FGM with male circumcision and minimise the mutilation girls and women suffer."
and
"And are you seriously using the term 'unaltered' to describe female genitalia that have not been mutilated? What a huge insult to those women and their unfortunate babies who suffer horribly because of FGM."
and
"circumcision is not butchering, and calling it butchering is an insult to the millions of butchered women and girls who suffer immeasurably as a result of FGM"
and
"Use of the term mutilation to describe male circumcision is trolling"
and
"So you can take your sanctimonious preaching elsewhere PigletJohn."
and
"PigletJohn continues to provoke, post inflammatory and disgusting comparisons of male circumcision to FGM,"
and
"Any post that seeks to compare male circumcision to FGM is gross and disgusting misogyny."
and
"'It is pure misogyny to compare FGM"
and
"It is pure misogyny to compare FGM,"
(repeated numerous times)

however, she fails to show us posts making the comparison, or claiming the equating, that she untruthfully alleges.

here is an example of math untruthfully pretending that her idea of the once-in-24-hours wash was my idea

"I am going on what PigletJohn states about washing intervals"

Some of whom are circumcised.

Well now I'm confused.

Unhygienic and circumcised????

'That said, of course yes, there are things one can do such as slight retraction, taking time to properly finish and not go off in a rush, or even drying off with toilet roll (granted, not usually the latter at urinals). The main thing, however, is of course to wash regularly. There's just no problem if one washes daily.'

Oh lolol

As shown, quite a lot of British men do not in fact wash daily.
Therefore, they and their penises probably smell.
Of smegma, sweat and urine.
Which is pretty offensive.

And they seem to be in such a hurry to leave the men's loo that they don't even bother washing their hands for the most part.

It's not an attack of any sort if it's a fact.

It's a problem. A national problem.

Yes, mathanxiety, people who don't wash tend to smell. Including circumcised men who don't wash. So what?

So PigletJohn, I take it you disagree with my views?

"As shown, quite a lot of British men do not in fact wash daily.
Therefore, they and their penises probably smell.
Of smegma, sweat and urine.
Which is pretty offensive."

If you have in fact carried out a comprehensive study of male penises, perhaps you know better than the rest of us.

Have you?

So, the medical problems that arise from not washing under the foreskin are eliminated by the simple procedure of circumcision, Icimoi.

And as shown, lots of British men are not too fussy about washing enough to guarantee cleanliness or health.

Maybe you missed my post detailing the results of a survey on terrible British washing habits, PigletJohn?

Or maybe you are ignoring it?

I would imagine the same applies for those women who don't wash frequently, wipe properly, wear synthetic knickers. But no one who is sane, rational or not a fanatic suggests getting rid of parts of the vulva because they may get pee-y, discharge-y or sweaty.

You're really basing a decision (if it's genuinely made on health/hygiene grounds) on the lowest common denominator, the poorest washers. Why one would imagine at birth that one's own son is likely to be unwashed and incapable of basic hygiene, I can't imagine. I always rather assumed that my dcs would learn from me and dh about keeping clean and not smelling rather than assuming they'd grow up to be smelly slobs!

Shown by who?

Seriously what are you talking about.

But, math, you seem to have a weird idea that the foreskin is a closed bag that retains urine etc. It isn't. Bear in mind that a circumcised man who doesn't wash is no better protected, because all that urine, sweat and smegma will be going onto his clothes and will be rubbing against his glans all day, probably rather more roughly.

And this idea you have that uncircumcised men all smell simply isn't borne out by reality. I have worked all my life in predominantly male environments in the UK, which statistically means that the vast majority of my colleagues will be uncircumcised, but they neither smell nor, in fact, have I ever known anyone to get penile cancer. I regularly travel on public transport and the people who smell are the ones who clearly don't wash anywhere, irrespective of whether they are circumcised or not. You seem to be living in a different world from the rest of us.

The point about lack of hygiene in men is that it is actually unhealthy (as well as unpleasant).

The case for routine male circumcision is based on the reality of poor hygiene and the reality of health issues arising from that in men. The same issues do not arise in women.

Inflammation – sore and red foreskin. Common causes include forced retraction, irritants such as bubble baths or dirty nappies.

Infection – the most common include posthitis and balanitis. Posthitis is infection of the foreskin, usually caused by fungus thriving in the hot and moist conditions. Balanitis is infection of the foreskin and glans, and is usually caused by poor hygiene. Smegma encourages the growth of infection-causing germs.

Chronic infections – for some males, posthitis or balanitis tends to recur. A complication of chronic infections is scar tissue, which could stick the foreskin to the glans and make retraction impossible. Chronic infections of the penis and foreskin also increase the risk of urinary tract infections. Repeated kidney infections can affect kidney function.

Phimosis – the foreskin is abnormally tight, which prevents it from retracting. This can cause recurrent balanitis because good hygiene is difficult or impossible. An erection may cause the foreskin to split and bleed. The tight foreskin can also hinder urination – in some cases, the foreskin fills up with urine like a little balloon. Phimosis is the most common reason for circumcision after infancy.

Paraphimosis – permanently retracted foreskin. The foreskin gathers like a tight rubber band around the penis, causing swelling and pain. This condition is the second most common reason for adult circumcision.
(Urological Society of Australia and New Zealand)

You missed it too, Bear?
How blind are those who will not see?