Circumcision: A Social Status in the UK ?

[Amazonia]

Curiously in the UK, circumcision is now a matter of social class. While the "ordinary" folks rarely circumcise, circumcision is prevalent in the upper class as well as in the Royal family.

Baggins, the benefits seem to be subjective.

brokenhearted55a said: "curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=415177"

Evidence that lunatics can type.

Th guy is responsible for ensuring that he is safe. If he does not wear a condom he is not doing this, whether we are talking about STDs or a pregnancy.

FourForksAche said: "Baggins, the benefits seem to be subjective."

Quite the opposite. The claimed drawbacks like reduced sensitivity are subjective. The benefits are backed up by research. Lots of research.

baggins, you are quite defensive, aggressive and you have a vested interest. As a result, I am not going to waste my breath trying to explain why some of the research out there is not entirely impartial.

Martorana said: "Th guy is responsible for ensuring that he is safe. If he does not wear a condom he is not doing this, whether we are talking about STDs or a pregnancy."

As I said, I will certainly tell him he must wear a condom for protection. But that doesn't absolve the female from responsibility too.

FourForksAche said: "baggins, you are quite defensive, aggressive and you have a vested interest. As a result, I am not going to waste my breath trying to explain why some of the research out there is not entirely impartial."

Translation: "You are right and my only defense is to hurl insults."

Baggins - I have not hurled insults at you, and I am sure you don't need me to validate your opinion of yourself.

"But that doesn't absolve the female from responsibility too."

Did I say that it did? I would say the same about a girl.

But if a man does not use a condom, and his sexual partner gets pregnant, he will find himself half responsible for a baby that he may not have wished for.

I would say the same about a girl.

But if a man does not use a condom, and his sexual partner gets pregnant, he will find himself half responsible for a baby that he may not have wished for.

I have never said otherwise and agree completely. (Don't expect me to make a habit of it!)

I thought from your post that you were laying full responsibility at the door of the guy for not wearing a condom. (Which would have been a very sexist comment, so I am glad you didn't mean that.)

FourForksAche said: "Baggins - I have not hurled insults at you, and I am sure you don't need me to validate your opinion of yourself."

baggins, you are quite defensive, aggressive and you have a vested interest.

Enough said.

Martorana Sorry, forgot to quote you in the last post.

baggins, you are quite defensive, aggressive and you have a vested interest.

How is that an insult? Please feel free to report me if you believe it is.

A man is always responsible for his own fertility. Regardless of the woman being, or not being, on the pill. And you will be doing your son a great disservice if you tell him that most sexually active women are on the pill.

FourForksAche said: "baggins, you are quite defensive, aggressive and you have a vested interest.

How is that an insult? Please feel free to report me if you believe it is."

Wow. No wonder you are so confused about the evidence supporting circumcision.

Mortarana said: "A man is always responsible for his own fertility. Regardless of the woman being, or not being, on the pill. And you will be doing your son a great disservice if you tell him that most sexually active women are on the pill."

And yet most sexually active women ARE on the pill!

Unless you are talking about rape, the woman is just as responsible as the man for ensuring she doesn't get pregnant. Or would you tell your girls not to worry about it because it is the guy's responsibility?

Nope. I tell girls that they are responsible for their own fertility too.

Are they? Prove it.

And how do you know that the particular woman you are having sex with is?

I suspect that baggins' line would be that because the pill is available, it's up to you to take it, so if you get pregnant it's your own fault........

Mortarana, the number of women using the pill is roughly the same as the number relying on condoms (25% usage each) according to this research www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/lifestyles/contraception-and-sexual-health/2008-09/2008-09.pdf

Martorana said: "Nope. I tell girls that they are responsible for their own fertility too."

Fair enough. This is just a play on words. I will, of course, tell my son that he would be a fool to have sex without a condom as he leaves himself open to both STD's and the possibility of creating a child he will have to care for. The same should be said to all kids, male of female.

HOWEVER.... reality tells us young health and safety isn't always top of young people's thoughts in the throws of passion, and if there is no condom to hand and the woman says she is on the pill..... that is how accidents happen, but happen they do.

Circumcision does at least reduce the risk a little bit should such a situation occur. It doesn't replace condoms in any way but it IS another real and tangible benefit of circumcision to add to the list.

Mortarana said: "I suspect that baggins' line would be that because the pill is available, it's up to you to take it, so if you get pregnant it's your own fault........"

Don't put words in my mouth. I have never said or even suggested any such thing. If you disagree with what I actually say, fair enough, but don't invent things to disagree with.