to feel that after living here for twenty years that i am no longer really welcome

[xmasadsboohiss]

I am from another European country and have lived here virtually all my adult life. I have worked for all of that time apart from a couple of months on the dole and on maternity leave. I will never consider myself British although I broadly share the values of the majority of people in this country. Over the last few months as Nigel Farage has been getting more and more air time I am feeling increasingly alienated and almost unwelcome - presumably Mr Farage's solution would be that I should pack my bags and go. If only life in the real world were quite so straightforward.

Oh God, I just looked at the comments on Yahoo about Jodie Foster's wedding. I thought that the anti-immigration ones were bad

how does that cap wages?

AFAIK, there isn't just free movement of the lowly paid. everybody, from bankers (of which many are european) to doctors to cleaners can come to the UK.

That is true. However the vast majority of EU immigrants are here doing unskilled jobs.

Competition pressure and pressure pushing wages down would mainly come if only low wage earners came.

Although it is certainly not the case that all EU immigrants are doing low paid, unskilled jobs in the UK it is the case that the vast majority of them are. This is the reason for competition pressure.
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Apart from that, I agree with most of what you said.

by the way, my DH - like yourself - was also a non-EEA national here initially on a fiance visa, although he is also now naturalised British as well. So we have gone through an awful lot of different experiences to get to where we are now and we've seen a whole range of reactions to our marriage.

With regards to the argument that most EU immigrants are doing unskilled jobs. Well wind the clock back 20-30 years and it was the Indian's and Pakistani's doing those jobs. At the time they got a hard time.

As a nation we actually need immigration but controlled and skilled immigration.

I think a decent debate on immigration is needed without people being accused of being 'racist'.

Personally I don't think UKIP are racist per se. But they are definitely playing the immigration card to further their own political agenda regardless of the facts.

The simple fact is that immigration as a whole is benefiting the country more than the problem it brings. Immigrants are less likely to claim benefits (because it's nigh impossible for them when they first arrive) and they are typically younger and better motivated.

We need young people who are willing to work hard because christ we've brought up a generation who won't. And also we've had less children so who will pay our taxes and pensions in the future?

Let's say we extracted ourselves from the EU and all the recent EU immigrants had to leave. The resulting hole would send such a shockwave through our economy that it'd probably make the 2008 financial crisis look like a walk in the park.

Let's be honest. Most of our kids don't want to work 10 hour days in a factory for minimum wage, pick vegetables on a farm in the height of summer or clean public toilets.

Although it is certainly not the case that all EU immigrants are doing low paid, unskilled jobs in the UK it is the case that the vast majority of them are. This is the reason for competition pressure.

how do you know this?

by the way, my DH - like yourself - was also a non-EEA national here initially on a fiance visa, although he is also now naturalised British as well. So we have gone through an awful lot of different experiences to get to where we are now and we've seen a whole range of reactions to our marriage.

I wonder if it's part of where you live. DP and I make a mixed race couple, but nobody seems to be bothered with that in London.

I really doubt all EU immigrants are doing low paid, unskilled jobs in the UK. Why would they be? Their education systems are as good if not better than the UK education system so its a govt/media myth they come here and pick up the lower end unskilled jobs. Some do, but many do not.

I think most people latch on and talk about the EU migrants doing low skilled jobs, because in the media, in debates ( QT) and so on, its what people have been telling us they do, and thats why we need them here as they do the jobs, the lazy Brits do not want to do....

If they are in more highly skilled jobs, then it calls more into question....and its harder to argue for the necessity of needing hundreds of thousands of people competing for jobs resident Brits, do and can and supposedly want to do.

If you look to emigrate to non EU countries, its quite specific about what your job is, there is a list of skills they are short of, and if you do not fall into any jobs on that list your chance of living in that country is probably, nil.
Usually the company about to employ you, will also have to prove you are not taking a job from a resident country member.

So its easier to say, they all do low paid jobs, because its easier to argue their added value.

Double edge sword.

xmas and everyone else feeling alienated by UKIP et al, don't worry you are wanted here, just ignore the haters they are ignorant and stupid.

I agree with sarinka, you're being just a bit dramatic. The BNP have been around for ages, didn't that bother you too?

Charming Sarinka. I'm British born but I feel pretty sick at seeing and hearing the anti-immigrant ranting that goes on in this country, day in day out. Anything and everything is blamed on immigrants and/or the poor. The press are pushing the right wing agenda, and it is poisoning the atmosphere.

the bnp was never as mainstream and in the media as ukip is atm, though.

OK guys I am not being melodramatic - if it helps I can simply say I am not British - I personally would still feel the same way. The atmosphere in the country has changed since the rise in coverage of UKIP. The BNP were always treated as nutters on the margin. The disturbing thing about UKIP is that the media coverage of them and the responses of the mainstream parties to their polices - make that policy, means that they are NOT treated as in the same way.

Farage does not speak for me or anyone I know. The man is a fool...a dangerous fool.
YANBU to feel as you do but please do not think he is in any way representative of the majority.

MistressDeeCee Fri 25-Apr-14 10:41:28
I really doubt all EU immigrants are doing low paid, unskilled jobs in the UK. Why would they be? Their education systems are as good if not better than the UK education system so its a govt/media myth they come here and pick up the lower end unskilled jobs. Some do, but many do not.

I would suggest that it is very much the other way round:-

Many do, some do not

The company I work for have done consultancy work with a number of very large employers in the UK and, I speak from experience, there are many thousands of EU immigrants doing unskilled work in large warehouses, food production and retail.

Farage is a hypocrite, with his German wife who is also his secretary (and on being challenged he came very close to admitting the job she does is be his wife - therefore he shouldn't be claiming her as an expense).

If all the EU immigrants went home - the country would collapse. Who would look after the elderly, pick fruit etc. etc.

The reality of the work that people describe as unskilled is that it actually is skilled, albeit it pays near minimum wage. Picking vegetables, deboning chicken, recycling, warehouse work quickly and efficiently is skilled. Due to my work, I meet huge numbers of eastern Europeans on near minimum wage levels doing work which actually take skills.

The real scandal in this country is a failure by employers to properly train UK staff.

A lot of the Eastern Europeans are young, well educated and many come over with recognised skills (eg HGV licences, carpentry or experience of agriculture).

Nowadays UK employers who thirty years ago would have paid staff to train now expect staff to pay for their own training. Examples include paramedics, police, HGV, cabin crew, food hygiene certificates, even getting DBS (CRB checks).

Big business is not going to lose their easy access to cheap skilled labour

UKIP's real agenda is to dismantle a lot of the employment safeguards we enjoy like maternity rights and disability rights (many of which are safeguarded by European Directives).

I am embarrassed to live in a country where UKIP is being treated as part of the mainstream establishment, and I really don't think most people believe in Farage's views. I hate the fact that it makes OP and others feel uncomfortable to live here.
I live in London and love the mix of nationalities, cultures and races here which make it the great city that it is.
I employ someone from a recent EU member country and feel ashamed at how she must feel reading some of the media coverage. The fact is that she does a skilled office job, writes better English than most English people, works hard, is very reliable and pays her taxes. Also she enables my company to make more money, which again contributes to the economy.