to think there is nothing wrong with saying britain is a christian country

[Slutbucket]

I have no strong opinion about David Cameron but I don't think h e has said anything wrong in describing Britain as a christian country. Our main holidays are Christmas and easter, the head of state needs to be protestant and much of our history and traditions are based around the christian religious calendar. We are moving to a more secular society but I can't see these traditions dying out. I live in a very multi cultural area where all festivals are celebrated. I have friends from many cultures who are not alienated by the christian festivals. Many send Christmas cards as a mark of respect (and some just celebrate Christmas because they like the festival) some people are not religious but will celebrate these festivals in some form ie buy an Easter egg for their children, celebrate pancake day.

Oops forgot all the Hispanic Xcolonies there - most of South America and the Philippines!

I think that he and his team correctly anticipated this minor shitstorm in order to woo some of the electorate back from Farage. I am dismayed that intelligent people that I admire played right into his hands.

And I fucking hate UKIP.

Yes, DC and his band of vicious thugs are certainly NOT Christian, but follows in a very long line of Tories who weren't either, so no surprise there.
I'm less concerned about if we are a 'Christian' country than if we are a 'fair' one, and we def. are not that.

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1. As a state, do we follow the Christian calendar, or merely one of the Christian calendars? I know the Gregorian calendar is frequently referred to as "the Christian calendar" but I think that's only a fair denotation if you're trying to distinguish it from other non-Christian-in-origin calendars at the level of so-what-number-do-you-call-this-year?

If we're going to talk about the UK as being a Christian country because state bank holidays are strongly linked to particular Christian feast days, then that is a Christian calendar, which developed within the Roman Catholic church and was preserved with no/few adjustments within the fledgling Anglican/Protestant churches. However, the Eastern Orthodox Church has a subtly different calendar, to the point that the many (many, many) Christians belonging to this church celebrate 25th December Christmas on the same day that members of the Western churches call January 7th.

As far as I can tell, from the complete text of David Cameron's speech, he did not say we were a Christian country because of our calendar, but if he had, it would have been extremely foolish of him to so carelessly foster international outrage. He was in fact so careful that he even acknowledged that the King James Version was not the only influential English-language Bible. Not doing that would have kicked up a tiny dust-storm.

2. While we're discussing the calendar, who is for implementing the Easter Act 1928? Let's have this Christian church-state relationship going both ways and have the state dictating to the Church, too!

*tiny dust-storm, by comparison

TL;DR and summation
Thank the God-in-which-David-Cameron-claims-belief that he didn't claim Britain follows "the Christian calendar" as that would have been majorly arrogant. The international situation is fast spinning beyond my comprehension as it is without our Prime Minister insulting over 200 million Christians in an Easter speech.

And if we're going to glory in the Church of England's feast days being so intimately connected to the State and being legally public holidays, why not use the powers we have and enforce the Easter Act 1928? It would be so much more convenient!

I'm a very hardened athiest and usually find religion not just a bit irritating, or baffling, but actually offensive and dangerous. I feel I should be offended by the country being referred to as Christian, as a large proportion of it, probably a majority by now, are not Christian, but are either atheist, agnostic, Muslim, Jewish, Catholic etc etc and this could be excluding all those people or even discriminatory towards them, but actually I think I agree it IS a Christian country, because it is the Christian calendar we run by, with a Christian monarch. But most our "Christian" traditions are actually rooted in Paganism or Wicca or something else entirely so it's all pretty much nonsense really (Easter eggs and rabbits having nothing at all to do with Christianity, Christmas trees have nothing to do with Christmas etc. And we don't HAVE to have a Christian monarch, we have in the past had Catholics and a Puritan and I see no reason a different religion couldn't come into it again down the line once this line ends, though personally I really hope organised religion is outlawed completely eventually and there is a total separation of religion and the state in all ways.

Well, even if we aren't a Christian country there are a LOT of parents selecting schools with a Christian ethos, and a lot of children being educated in CofE and Catholic schools. It is well known that church schools are generally oversubscribed and people will lie to get their children into the schools.

When Sky News and BBC were quoting how many attend church, they should have compared how many attend church in the year before their child attends the church primary! It would be interesting to know in a supposedly secular society how many children DO attend church schools.

My DD goes to a Christian school - because the education is fantastic. Nothing to do with religion and I do teach her that the school's lessons are just one theory out of many and not fact and that she has to make up her own mind what she thinks is right. I have never gone to church.

Ok, I just read through exactly what Cameron wrote and didn't find it offensive at all. He was just saying that Christian concepts influence many British traditions on what we believe to be right and wrong and whether we follow the religion or not, Christianity is an important part of Britain's cultural heritage. This I agree with. When it's used as a "nonbelievers/non-Christians hate our way of life and wish to destroy all that is good because they are not Christian" then I get worried.

That said, I'm still cynical. They didn't care what religion we were when our forebears were murdered in the Somme, WW2 Europe, SE Asia or any number of other wars that preceded/followed including current ones. All they really care about is that we believe in the faith enough to produce more cannon fodder/cheap labour. The appeals to religion from politicians are only about that. Really.

Culturally it is a Christian country. Our laws and general values of society originate from a Christian background. Not all religions would have developed the welfare state, some would leave peoples' fate to karma. Some religions could have produced it through their beliefs in fairness, and being charitable, but the evolution of the system was through Christian philanthropists being appalled at the consequences of the industrial revolution on much of society, and improving opportunities for the poor through charitable means then through legal means.

Broadly, many religions share the same basic values, but the moral framework that most people in the UK accept has developed through a Christian root regardless of their religious or non-religious practices. The way we live, through tradtions and society's structures is still underpinned by over a thousand years of Christian history (yes, amalgamating with previous Pagan practice), and the effects of breaking off from the Catholic Church, and the religious outcomes of the Civil War. Victorian Christian values and traditions still have a strong influence as a cultural. benchmark, and have only been diluted Iin recent decades, and gradually.

As a country, we are richer for acknowledging our history and how our society yas evolved. To forget or dismiss that removes the meaning and purpose of what we do and makes our soceity superficial (thinks of China, having so much of its history and tradition swept away and destroyed by the Cultural Revolution).

YANBU OP.

venus, you can swear an oath on other religious texts in court too.

I agree with MrsMook. David Cameron is quite right that culturally and traditionally we are a Christian country.

I like that he said we are a christian country. I am a welsh girl who has grandparentsand parents who were brought up within the christian faith as was I.
I feel sad that the values that they have/had have been eroded to the point where people are made to feel bad/bigotted for admitting to holding these values.
These values led to state education, nhs etc, both areas that are being eroded as we try so hard to disown our roots.
I am cross that my beliefs and my family history are being rewritten and undermined in suttle ways.
If we are to move away from our christian roots and have more of our laws made in Europe who do our armed forces fight for?
The values and reason for their existance would cease to exist.

mimishimmi, in general agreement with you about the syncretism thing ...
but Easter ≠ Ishtar

I broadly agree with the OP. I also think that people make a very casual link between "Christian values" and being a good person so sort see any suggestion that we / they are not Christian as being some sort of slur on their morals, which is obviously a totally different thing. Historically, Christianity is the only religion that has at any time been the ONLY religion (from about 1290 when Edward I kicked out the Jews til about the 1800s when Jews started coming back). Prior to Christianity the Pagan traditions were a mismatch and had no relation to law. The Viking / Saxon traditions that briefly prevailed after the Roman period were similarly patchy. Only from Alfred onward and even later did Christianity become so entrenched with the state and the power struggles and relations between the church and state so endemic. It cannot be denied that this country is broadly Christian in its structure and institutions and I don't see why this is so "offensive" to some people. I am very glad we are so tolerant and multicultural in relation to the practice of other or no religion but I see no reason to get knickers in a twist about Cameron's statement.

It might be referred to as a Christian country but I (and hopefully increasing numbers of others) really really wish it wasn't - I would love to hear a leader one day refer to Britain as a secular country with no religion on schools or politics.

I think this will eventually happen when all the hypocrits who say they are Christian but never attend church finally have the balls to admit the truth to themselves ! (Yes I mean you all my friends who married in churches and baptised teir children but have never darkened the churches doorstep since)

The UK IS literally Christian country in that it's not legally secular and the head of the state is also head of the church.
However I feel it shouldn't be referred to as culturally Christian because it is incredibly multicultural and relatively few people attend church.

We are multicultural but we follow the Christian calendar. Good Friday and Easter Monday are Bank Holidays etc and schools work around it for holidays, despite the fact it isn't at the most convenient time to break the terms.

Just on the swearing of an oath in court, etc - those who do not wish to make a religious statement may make a 'solemn declaration' where they state they will tell the truth. No reference to any god or use of a religious text in the process.

There is a long history in the UK of tolerance of other religions and traditions. Doesn't mean it isn't a Christian country.

I don't think he is wrong that on the basis of culture and history we are a Christian country.

However when I read the bit of his speech that goes

"The Bible runs through our political history in a way that is often not properly recognised. The history and existence of a constitutional monarchy owes much to a Bible in which Kings were anointed and sanctified with the authority of God and in which there was a clear emphasis on the respect for Royal Power and the need to maintain political order",

I couldn't help thinking of "Game of Thrones".

RandomInternetStranger, I know you may not care but, for the sake of facts, Catholicism and Puritanism are Christian faiths. You were talking about the C of E.

Yes we are, even though we have other religions and cultures here in Britain, we should not loose sight of our National identity. Somehow I think it has been diluted, the situation in Birmindham is a good example. How was that allowed to happen! weak leadership, and not respecting this Counties identity. This would not be allowed to happen in any other country, only in Britain!