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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think there is nothing wrong with saying britain is a christian country

263 replies

Slutbucket · 22/04/2014 00:00

I have no strong opinion about David Cameron but I don't think h e has said anything wrong in describing Britain as a christian country. Our main holidays are Christmas and easter, the head of state needs to be protestant and much of our history and traditions are based around the christian religious calendar. We are moving to a more secular society but I can't see these traditions dying out. I live in a very multi cultural area where all festivals are celebrated. I have friends from many cultures who are not alienated by the christian festivals. Many send Christmas cards as a mark of respect (and some just celebrate Christmas because they like the festival) some people are not religious but will celebrate these festivals in some form ie buy an Easter egg for their children, celebrate pancake day.

OP posts:
MistressDeeCee · 23/04/2014 22:37

No, I dont think there is anything wrong with it & I dont see why a Christian country wont just celebrate that with pride. It is what it is.

lionheart · 23/04/2014 22:43

What are we supposed to be celebrating?

SuburbanRhonda · 23/04/2014 22:47

And what do the non-Christians do while the Christians are celebrating?

The tidying up, maybe?

kim147 · 23/04/2014 22:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SuburbanRhonda · 23/04/2014 22:49

Grin kim

CorusKate · 23/04/2014 22:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

lionheart · 23/04/2014 22:50

You are doing a brilliant job on this thread kim147.

SuburbanRhonda · 23/04/2014 22:51

I don't think there was enough pride in that celebratory exclamation, corus Wink

SuburbanRhonda · 23/04/2014 22:52

Agree, lion.

Just a shame no-one claiming that we are a Christian country has actually had the courtesy of answering kim's questions Hmm

lionheart · 23/04/2014 22:53

If I were a Christian I would be rather peeved if I thought DC was using his own faith as political currency.

CorusKate · 23/04/2014 22:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

lionheart · 23/04/2014 22:57

Wouldn't it be a blast if the Horrible Histories Series tackled Theology and Religious History?

CorusKate · 23/04/2014 22:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ErrolTheDragon · 23/04/2014 22:59

More recently, Clifford's Tower was used for a great fireworks display on ... Guy Fawkes night. Not exactly a celebration of Christian love and tolerance there either.

lionheart · 23/04/2014 23:03

Good point CorusKate.

Oh yes, good point Errol.

lionheart · 23/04/2014 23:05

Two good points, in fact. Grin

I do think that progressive and liberal Christians are more willing and able to take on board these histories and that is a jolly good thing.

ErrolTheDragon · 23/04/2014 23:11

I do sometimes wonder if a lot of people who think this is a 'Christian country' aren't totally sure what a Christian is (DC seems pretty fuzzy). When I was a Christian - blimey, 30 years back - it seemed to me even then that only a minority really were. (maybe that was the arrogance of youth though)

lionheart · 23/04/2014 23:18

It is a pretty meaningless phrase, isn't it?

I would have thought that Jesus as son of God/saviour would be the minimum. Not sure what a Catholic would say.

ErrolTheDragon · 23/04/2014 23:38

I think the question in the survey kim cited earlier was a pretty good definition of the barest minimum - which was whether they believed that Jesus Christ was a real person who died and came back to life and was the son of God.

And even that minimum only got 48% of the 53.38% who ticked the Christian box (when presented with the leading question 'what is your religion') ...that's a tad over a quarter of the sample.

TillyTellTale · 24/04/2014 02:41

When the same sample was asked the follow-up question ‘Are you religious?’, only 29% of the same people said ‘Yes’ while 65% said ‘No’, meaning over half of those whom the census would count as having a religion said they were not religious.

Less than half (48%) of those who ticked ‘Christian’ said they believed that Jesus Christ was a real person who died and came back to life and was the son of God.

Très interesting! I should have known.

If you do a "what is your religion" question, you take out the people who expressly identify as something else (in no particular order, Jews, Muslims, Ba'hais, Sikhs. etc).

You don't necessarily get all the weak/negative atheists, unless your survey is conducted in a philosophical debating society! Grin (Weak/negative atheist is not a pejorative term, or at least I'm not using it that way. It means someone who lacks a belief in a deity's existence. Strong/positive atheists both lack belief in a deity and actively have a belief that there is no deity.)

For example, my mother, who has vocally said and repeatedly said before that she thinks Jesus was a historical figure and not divine Grin, now ticks Christian, and wears a cross she bought from Primark everywhere. She now says she thinks she always was a Christian. What she means is that she likes the values of the New Testament. (To be fair, she has always appreciated them, which is why I grew up familiar with the gospels). She is also scared of sharia law, and she wants to demonstrate her rejection of Islam. So that is playing a part in it.

I, myself, many, many years ago, would have ticked Christian at one point, because back then, I would have thought cultural familiarity with Bible stories, my fear of eternal flames and damnation after death, and my feeling of discomfort at the idea of a non-Christian burial was enough.

But that really isn't the same as believing that Jesus was divine.

SuburbanRhonda · 24/04/2014 07:29

tilly, how is it possible to reject Islam if you aren't a Muslim?

Not being goady, just genuinely wondering how you could do that without it coming over as anti-Muslim Confused

merrymouse · 24/04/2014 07:55

I think Britain is more tolerant than many countries. However, as said up thread, a small amount of familiarity with 'horrible histories' will tell you that this is a relatively recent state of affairs. 'Christian values' seem to be open to interpretation.

TillyTellTale · 24/04/2014 08:54

My mother is anti-Muslim! Blush

Sorry for the confusion and for leading you on into thinking there would be any level of philosophical complexity with that one. It's exactly as you first thought. These days, my mother would vote BNP if there was a local candidate standing.

ErrolTheDragon · 24/04/2014 09:56

People don't sufficiently make the distinction between rejecting Islamism and being generally anti-Muslim. Sad But the solution to 'political islam' isn't 'political christianity' - which is what the UK has with its established church etc - but proper secularization.

lionheart · 24/04/2014 12:54

Unless you argue that all of those non-religious, non-believing Christians are rather like atheist Jews who still describe themselves as Jewish?

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