To think this other dog walker could have been more understanding/helpful?

[SelectAUserName]

We have a rescue dog who has a socialisation issue around some (not all) other dogs, which manifests itself as fear-aggression. He is fine with people, it's just dogs and mainly other spaniels and dark/black dogs. We are actively working with a behaviourist to build his confidence and we try to manage it by walking him in quiet places. Usually my DH and I try to walk him together, so one of us can concentrate on SelectASpaniel and the other be "on point" for other dogs, but my DH is in hospital this weekend so I'm on my own.

I took him out earlier to a spot that is usually relatively quiet - although grassed, it is comparatively close to a road so not many walkers choose to let their dogs off. One of SAS's plus points is that he is 100% off-lead (ex-working dog) so by going to the farthest point from the road I can still give him a little off-lead time to play 'fetch' etc. We were just finishing up when a man appeared with a black LabX-type. I put SAS back on his lead just as the man started to let his dog off. We would have to pass them to get back on the pavement and SAS had now spotted the dog and was starting to get agitated; not barking but right up on his toes and trembling.

I called across and asked the man, politely, if he would mind keeping his dog on the lead until we had got past. He just said "it's alright, he's friendly" (heartsink moment - how many times have I heard that before?) and continued to let his dog off. The dog started to trot towards us and that was enough for SAS to launch towards it - no danger of touching it, there was still a good few feet between them and it's an ordinary lead not an extendable one - but barking and lunging. Unsurprisingly the other dog started to bark back and the man got really cross and started shouting that I shouldn't be out with a dangerous dog and being generally unpleasant. I tried to ignore him while dragging SAS away as far from the other dog as possible; not an easy task as he is a big solid springer. He made no attempt to move his dog away and I called over "look, you can see I'm struggling, can you call your dog to heel so I can get past and leave you in peace".

He did so with very bad grace and continued to have a go at me until eventually, once I'd got past and had SAS's attention back on me, I turned round and shouted back "it's ignorant tossers like you who make rehabilitating a rescue dog a million times harder". I marched off with him still shouting after me, got a couple of streets away and then burst into tears - I think it was the adrenaline wearing off, the shock of him being so aggressive and the worry over my DH's illness all coming together.

But honestly, WIBU to expect him to keep his dog on its lead for the two extra minutes it would have taken us to get past after I asked him?

pigsDOfly I often have the same problem in reverse! Cute little bundles of fluff that can do no wrong in their owners eyes attaching themselves to my large dog's face! I've even had 'oooh! isn't little so-and-so brave!' type comments as they launch at us! As you say, there's a certain type of arrogant owner out there who has a 'my dog can do no wrong' attitude. Highly annoying!

I think you are being unreasonable, you would rather your dog feels less anxious by not putting a muzzle on him if you have a dog who is aggressive towards other dogs or people you should have it muzzled.

You may say that it would be the other owner's fault if yiur dog attacked his but actually yiu are wrong, your dog doesn't own tge 8feet that surrounds it, you can't dictate who is allowed or not allowed to enter that space in a public area.

Ic your dog started a fight with the other dog and the man intervened and was bitten your dog could be put to sleep.

Why take a violent dog somewhere they will meet other dogs?

Of course you were not being unreasonable! I'm so sorry that happened, dog altercations can be really stressful.

A dog on a leash whose owner is able to control him does not need a fucking muzzle. And the OP was able to control him. She did have difficulty, yes. But many, many dogs of all sizes are difficult to control when another off-leash dog is invading their space and won't leave them alone. That is quite normal: when one dog is on leash and one is off, and the off-leash dog comes into the on-leash dog's space, the on-leash dog can get very stressed b/c it knows that it has less freedom to defend itself. It's being controlled by the leash while the other dog is not, and that power imbalance can be hugely stressful for any dog that is less than 100% happy go lucky about fellow dogs.

That's why it's so important for an owner who takes his dog off-leash to be able and willing to control it. It's outrageous to suggest that a dog needs a muzzle b/c he finds it threatening to have a free-running dog come pushing into his space while he's on leash.

And I admit I do not know UK law as I'm in the US. But here, in the scenario the OP describes, if her dog had bitten the other dog, she would not have been liable. The other owner would have been. B/c she was controlling her dog, and he was not controlling his.

Also -- a dog that can be trusted to walk past other dogs if he and they are all on leash without displaying aggression (and I mean serious aggression; barking warningly is quite normal) and can also be trusted to live normally in a house with humans is not a violent dog.

KeatsiePie The laws are the same here. The dog on a lead is under control- it's on a lead. The offlead dog allowed to barge up to it and get in its space is considered not under control. Regardless of 'who owns the park/who has the right to be there' it's good manners and common sense to recall your dog away from a dog on a lead, for exactly the reasons you describe.

Also worth pointing out that a dog that is reactive towards other dogs, particularly on lead, due to fear/defense has nothing to do with dogs that are reactive towards people. They are two separate issues.

ikea The only way a dog would get close enough to be bitten by mine is if it were off-lead and persisting in getting in my dog's face, as my dog is always on a lead around other dogs and if the other dog were also on a lead I'd be able to take avoiding action secure in the knowledge the other dog couldn't chase/follow us. By definition therefore, the other dog would not be under the control of its owner and it would be the other owner's fault for not having their dog on a lead.

My dog doesn't actively pick fights, go chasing after other dogs to start fights or try to get closer to other dogs. It is only when another dog invades his space that he reacts. If the other dog is on-lead it's easy for me to steer a course that keeps my dog far enough away so as not to trigger that reaction. Problems only occur when other owners let their "friendly" dogs run loose up to mine and either don't or can't recall them - meaning their dogs are out of control.

Thank you to the last two posters who get it!

How can a dog, on lead, under control, being carefully managed at a distance from other dogs, be said to have 'started a fight' if another dog off lead and not under any kind of control has barged over and got into its face?

Haven't read the full thread, but I don't think YABU. Has anyone suggested the yellow dog scheme? Google them. My friend has a rehomed lurcher with similar issues, and I bought her a doggy vest from yellow dog, with a big sign stamped on the side saying 'I need my space' - people don't always see it, but it can be part of a strategy!

Sorry, x post select

As for the comment that you are not entitled to control the feet around your dog - that appears to be suggesting that anyone should be able to march with their dog directly into a fearful dog's face any time they like and the dog better not react or have any feelings about it.

Any rational, competent dog owner does NOT inflict their dog on an unfamiliar dog and just expect the dog to be fine with it. If you see a dog on lead it's a signal that that dog does not necessarily welcome an approach and you act accordingly and guide your dog away. Unless you're an idiot who yells 'it's fine, he's friendly!'

Also worth pointing out that a dog that is reactive towards other dogs, particularly on lead, due to fear/defense has nothing to do with dogs that are reactive towards people. They are two separate issues. Chasing yes, absolutely true.

Glad to hear the laws are the same for you. Select at least you know you were fully in the right. If this is a regular walking path for both you and the other owner, I'd (not to be dramatic, but for your own safety; dog fights are serious) consider having the police explain this point of law to him.

Oh, and as for "why take a violent dog somewhere they will meet other dogs?" Firstly, he isn't "violent", he has an issue with a small number of dogs which is 100% manageable and avoidable if other owners have a modicum of common sense and courtesy. Secondly, which part of my posts where I explained why I take him to that particular spot rather than the usual dog walking place to walk him do you not understand? Or are you offering to buy me a small private island?

I live in a community. Encountering other dogs is unavoidable. That's why I'm paying £40 a pop for a behavourist to try to turn him into a sensible member of canine society. And he is getting better - but every idiot like today's who thinks they know better sets us back and makes the job harder.

If your dog was the first dog to bite then your dog would be starting a fight. If your dog wouldn't bite the other dog then what is the problem? just walk along with your dog and get on with your day.

If your dog would possibly bite another dog and the other dog's owner tried to help his dog and managed to get bit by your dog then your dog could be put down regardless of if your dog was on a lead or not.

Hopefully your dog would never bote any other dog or person, in which case you seem to be overreacting, if there is even a 1%chance your dog would bite it should be muzzled.

I personally wouldn't choose to have an agressive animal in my life regardless of the group of animals/people the dog was aggresive to.

YANBU. At all.

Well done and thank you for sticking it out with a challenging dog instead of getting rid like so many people do. Also, as far as the law is concerned your dog was under control, the other dog was not.

Yanbu!
My mums dogs aren't good with other dogs 100% of the time so she always puts them on a lead when we see another dog and the amount of times we hear 'its alright, mines friendly' that's great until mine takes a chunk of your dogs ear

There is a lot more to dog behaviour than biting. A reactive dog is one which likes its space and will clearly tell other dogs to shove off, usually without biting the other dog (although there might be plenty of noise and shoulder bumps etc.,). It's perfectly reasonable to want to work with your dog to make it less reactive around others even if you don't believe it will bite. Lessening reactivity is generally better achieved when a dog is kept under threshold during desensitisation- an off lead dog running up and getting in its face, causing it to react, will set the reactive dog back a few steps.

This is why most reactive dogs are kept on a lead- so that the handler can do an about-face and march off in the other direction if they feel the dog is about to go over threshold. Where the other dog is not under control (and is therefore allowed to approach the on lead dog without being recalled) control of the situation is taken away from the handler with the reactive dog.

None of this has much to do with worrying your dog will bite. My own dog has real 'handbags at dawn' moments with his best mate sometimes, and from the noise they both make you'd think they were killing each other, but there is never so much as a tiny scrape on either of them. It does however have everything to do with rehabilitating a stressed dog to make its and the handlers life easier.

Recalling your dog away from a leashed dog is a matter of common courtesy, just as you would recall your dog away from walkers, buggys, children and picnics.

Hope that helps clear the situation up ikeaismylocal

ikea that just isn't true. If my dog is off leash and your dog is on leash, and you say to me "please control your dog, mine is afraid of it," and I don't control my dog, and your dog bites it -- I would be liable. You would not be liable. B/c your dog was under control, and mine was not.

The problem with trying to walk past and get on with your day is -- in that scenario my dog would be preventing you and your dog from walking past.

And no, there is no need for a dog who has a 1% chance of biting to be muzzled. All dogs have a 1% chance of biting. B/c they are dogs.

OP I could have written your post, right down to DH being in hospital!!

we have a rescue boxer-rottweiler cross who adores humans and cats but hates (most) other dogs & I have to go through this palarva on atleast a weekly basis.... it's often made worse because our dog looks big and menancing & those with their pedigree, docile Labradors etc always assume you've got a dangerous dog when Infact she is actually terrified of other dogs because she isnt socialised

you have my sympathy

Hahahaha dog handbags at dawn! I am picturing Easter handbags trimmed with grass snippings and perhaps a bit of extra-fancy rabbit poo.

As I said, ikea, my dog has never bitten another dog in the time we have had him. I would like to keep it that way. I would also like him to feel confident and relaxed, or at least more so, in situations that he currently finds challenging and stressful, for his sake. Every badly-behaved off-lead dog that invades his space makes that goal harder.

Yanbu. Tbh if I see a dog that is on a lead, especially one who has just been put on the lead when we appear, I would assume there was a good reason for that and keep my dog away.

Sympathies bugsy, for the fellow rescue dog challenges but particularly for your DH's hospitalisation - I hope he's okay.

You need to shout "rescue dog, not friendly"
Removes the blame from you and is Quick to shout. No ones going to be awkward as you have said rescue dog.

Fwiw my dog hates groups of dogs rushing her. ( she will go right round to avoid them) I always shout " she's not good with groups, be nice, go round" makes it pretty clear. SHe's not agressive just snarly when frightened.

Chasing meant to say that whole post of explanation re: dog behavior was great.