To think this other dog walker could have been more understanding/helpful?

[SelectAUserName]

We have a rescue dog who has a socialisation issue around some (not all) other dogs, which manifests itself as fear-aggression. He is fine with people, it's just dogs and mainly other spaniels and dark/black dogs. We are actively working with a behaviourist to build his confidence and we try to manage it by walking him in quiet places. Usually my DH and I try to walk him together, so one of us can concentrate on SelectASpaniel and the other be "on point" for other dogs, but my DH is in hospital this weekend so I'm on my own.

I took him out earlier to a spot that is usually relatively quiet - although grassed, it is comparatively close to a road so not many walkers choose to let their dogs off. One of SAS's plus points is that he is 100% off-lead (ex-working dog) so by going to the farthest point from the road I can still give him a little off-lead time to play 'fetch' etc. We were just finishing up when a man appeared with a black LabX-type. I put SAS back on his lead just as the man started to let his dog off. We would have to pass them to get back on the pavement and SAS had now spotted the dog and was starting to get agitated; not barking but right up on his toes and trembling.

I called across and asked the man, politely, if he would mind keeping his dog on the lead until we had got past. He just said "it's alright, he's friendly" (heartsink moment - how many times have I heard that before?) and continued to let his dog off. The dog started to trot towards us and that was enough for SAS to launch towards it - no danger of touching it, there was still a good few feet between them and it's an ordinary lead not an extendable one - but barking and lunging. Unsurprisingly the other dog started to bark back and the man got really cross and started shouting that I shouldn't be out with a dangerous dog and being generally unpleasant. I tried to ignore him while dragging SAS away as far from the other dog as possible; not an easy task as he is a big solid springer. He made no attempt to move his dog away and I called over "look, you can see I'm struggling, can you call your dog to heel so I can get past and leave you in peace".

He did so with very bad grace and continued to have a go at me until eventually, once I'd got past and had SAS's attention back on me, I turned round and shouted back "it's ignorant tossers like you who make rehabilitating a rescue dog a million times harder". I marched off with him still shouting after me, got a couple of streets away and then burst into tears - I think it was the adrenaline wearing off, the shock of him being so aggressive and the worry over my DH's illness all coming together.

But honestly, WIBU to expect him to keep his dog on its lead for the two extra minutes it would have taken us to get past after I asked him?

YANBU, if yours was on the lead and his was not.

Some dog owners just do not get the concept of on the lead = more control. No wonder their dogs don't get it either.

So there's no way of distracting your dog once he's zoned in on another?

It's a hard one.

I usually put my dog on a lead when I see another on a lead.

One time I did this the other woman was making no attempt to distract her dog or move it to the other side of her so that she would be between it & us iyswim.

She was just hanging on for grim death whilst the dog dragged her nearer & nearer!

I was out with DC and my dog yesterday and a woman had her German Shepherd loose. It was chasing every dog in sight. My dog is very well behaved, comes when called, walks to heel etc etc. Her dog chased and mine ran around trying to escape hers coming back to me as called...where upon I stupidly intervened and shooed her dog away scooping up mine. Wasn't bitten fortunately!

As we walked we kept having this dog bother us. I had to put mine on the lead to keep it close enough to be able to shoo away the GS without a chase ensuing. Owner came out with the its ok! he's friendly line totally missing the point that bothering my little dog who was terrified is not ok.

The same GS was also nosing straight into the faces of families eating on the beach. Owner needed kennelling and her dog rehousing!

I hate the it's ok he's friendly line, my dog is on lead for a reason so I normally shout back that's great but mine isn't. Like yours HeyDog would just be on alert unless it started running towards him then it's lunging and barking. Also a rescue but a labxgsd, his problem is that he wasn't socialised so doesn't know how to greet dogs his excitement becomes agitation and then aggression (he's fine off lead). Ignore the ignorant man. I know how hard it is and have been in tears many times over other walkers when I've tried my hardest to avoid a situation just like you did.

Floral my dog is only offlead for as long as we have the place to ourselves. Once another dog appears, he is straight back on the lead.

diddl He is hard to distract if he reaches barking-and-lunging stage, but fortunately that only happens if a dog, especially a spaniel or black dog, gets within about 7-8 feet of him. He will happily pass e.g. a Jack Russell on the other side of the pavement without a second glance. Small dogs can bark at him from a distance of 8 feet+ and he won't react other than a glance at us for reassurance. He will walk behind a dog going in the same direction, i.e. facing away from him, at that sort of distance quite happily. He never attempts to get closer to another dog himself, but he will react defensively - which obviously comes across as aggression - if they come within his 7-8 feet "comfort zone". If he spots a trigger-type dog facing him or heading in his direction but still outside his comfort zone he will watch it with ears pricked and a bit of a tremble, but I still have full control, he will take a treat from me and I can direct him away without any trouble.

YANBU

As one of my friends who has a rescue dog says to anyone who comes out with the - it's okay, my dog is friendly line. She says - well my dog isn't and will attack your dog.

As one of those behaviourist types (with a masters and professional membership and everything) who works with dogs in London - owners like this are the bane of my, and my client's, lives. A dog that will approach other dogs regardless of the body language involved are not friendly. They are rude and poorly socialised.

You did everything you could - your dog was on a lead, you warned the other owner who failed to control his own dog and you did not deserve that sort of abuse. I would dispute the idea that a muzzle would make your dog feel more helpless and muzzle training is always a good idea and might make you feel more confident when walking your dog. But if you are happy with the advice you are getting and the b-mod plan you have then I would stick with that.

You can try shouting "My dog has insert communicable disease here" - that normally makes them run to get their dog sharpish!

You are being very, very ur, and I can't believe that no one else has even mentioned it.

Yes, the bloke was a tosser...by that point your dog was on a lead, he should have helped you out and put his on the lead too until you were past etc etc.

BUT...your dog, who is aggressive towards certain other dogs, so much so that you cannot even drag him away when on the lead...should not be off the lead at all when there are possibly other dogs around. You are being completely irresponsible by letting it off.

What happens if another dog appears in a split second where you are distracted, and your dog takes off towards it before you get a chance to leash him? Just tough luck for the other dog he attacks?

System have you read my last post? My dog does not "take off" towards other dogs. He ignores them or, at worst, watches them approach until they get within about eight feet of him. When I am walking him I make sure I don't get "distracted" precisely so that I can watch for other dogs approaching and get him back on his lead instantly. I have never failed to do this. I'm not one of those dippy owners drifting along watching the trees and the sky and the pretty flowers - my focus is my dog and the possible approach of any other dogs. When I am picking up his poo he is put into a 'down-stay' beside me which, as an ex-working dog, he obeys impeccably. I know how much of a responsibility it is to have a less-than-perfect dog and I take it seriously. I also take his welfare seriously which includes gving him some off-lead time and as I unfortunately don't have my own mansion with acres of grounds, that has to be within public spaces.

The other dog owner would have only himself to blame if his pet had been hurt. You did everything you could.

I've just been to the park to meet with family and my neice's mil was there with her mastiff, a big but totally bomb proof dog who is gentle and wonderful with children. Before we got there she was verbally abused by a stranger who said she should have her dangerous dog on a lead, shouted and swore and threatened to call the police, and ignored her saying the dog was harmless and there was no requirement to leash them in the park.

I have concluded idiots shouldn't be allowed out in public, whether they have dogs or not.

Ok, I may get flamed, but I may very well have been in the position of the other dog owner here.

I too have a springer, he is very strong and very friendly. I also have a health issue which makes it difficult to hold onto the lead if he pulls. If he saw another springer on lead close to him he would be very interested and try to say hello. If he pulled on a normal lead I couldn't guarantee he wouldn't get closer to you, and if you were quite obviously trying to keep your dog away I would therefore avoid this.

If I let my dog off lead he would instantly run a short distance from me and wait for me to throw his ball (ball obsessed) he would totally blank you and your dog, leaving you in peace. I would think this to be the better option.

If you then shouted at me about rehabilitating rescue dogs (mine is also a rescue) I would probably be pissed off too. Its your job to ensure you can handle your dog safely as much as it is everyone elses to handle theirs, they may have a good reason for being off lead too.

YANBU. My dog is like yours, and I have a thread about him in the Doghouse.

Idiot owners locally include the Jack Russell owner who deliberately ignores her dog and walks away - leaving him free to get in the face of mine and bark at him; and the couple who walk four dogs between them and let them mob my dog, because "they just want to play with him."

He does not want to play with them and I don't intend making him.

You are doing a good thing. Idiot man was a twat.

'I called across and asked the man, politely, if he would mind keeping his dog on the lead until we had got past. He just said "it's alright, he's friendly" (heartsink moment - how many times have I heard that before?) and continued to let his dog off.'

He was an arse, a lot of dog owners are. Then when the situation spirals because of their arrogance, they get cross. You knew what would happen, you warned him and he knew better.
So no, YWNBU.

tooearly There's a slight contradiction / hypocrisy in saying it's my job to handle my dog safely (which I did; no contact was made, no thanks to the other dog walker initially) a mere two paragraphs after you admit you'd struggle to control your dog on a lead!

My dog will only react if a dog invades what he sees as "his" space, a few feet away from him. Up to that point he is 100% within my control. If you can't ensure your dog won't invade that space even when it's on a lead then I suggest you are the one who is not in full control of your dog.

That aside, if you shouted in response to my polite request something like "he'll ignore you off-lead once I throw his ball, he's much worse on the lead" I'd completely understand - SAS is actually better off-lead and I suspect that if I left him off-lead he would be less reactive as he'd feel more able to "get away" as necessary, but I don't dare take the risk of getting it wrong or risking him "getting away" under a car, hence the lead goes on. However this man didn't do that, I just got "it's okay, he's friendly" which is essentially an acknowledgement that his dog is going to come and say hello whether we want him to or not, and his dog didn't focus on his owner or a ball, he immediately set off towards us at a purposeful trot. So not exactly a comparable situation.

You ANBU. I have the same problem with my dog selecta. I have found that I get a better response if I warn the other owner about my dog before asking them to put their dog on a lead. So instead of them calling out that their dog is friendly, I pre empt them, eg " My dog is not good with other dogs" in an assertive manner, "please can you hold your dog while we pass/ put your dog on a lead/wait for me to get off the path out of your way etc"

SelectAUserName I totally understand what you are saying, my message wasn't very clear. My dog is always under control as if I am walking him onlead I use a halti, with the lead normally attached around my waist or crossbody. He would only be on a normal lead if we were literally going from car to open space when it doesn't matter if I let go. His recall is great and he is fine with other dogs/people/etc.

If I let him off he would run about 3-4m from me and then stop waiting for his ball. It would be as if your dog didn't exist lol. I wouldn't shout 'he's friendly' but might say 'don't worry, he's OK' meaning he will leave you alone but I can see it could be taken the other way. I wouldn't generally stand there having a conversation with someone who clearly wants space, I would just carry on with our walk and get out of their way.

I was just trying to say that other dog walkers are normally focusing on walking their dogs and dealing with any issues they may have, although they should be considerate, you cannot expect them to change their behaviour to suit you and your dog.

YANBU and owners like this really annoy me. If a dog is on lead it is for a reason. It might be because it has behavioural issues, is recovering from an op, unwell that day, recall is dodgy, is in trouble for ignoring its owner earlier and more I can't think of.

If your dog won't walk past at a reasonable distance totally ignoring the on lead dog, then stick it back on the lead. It is not rocket science and really is basic manners.

YANBU. It's generally accepted that you do not allow your offlead dog to approach a dog that is on it's lead. You have no idea why the dog is on a lead for a start; injury, poor recall, still being socialised the list goes on.

Add to that many dogs that are fine to mix off lead get defensive on a lead. I have a GSD that is a total wuss and avoids other dogs when he's off lead. He knows he can't do that when he's on a lead so he can be very loud about marking his space out if other dogs approach him and he can't get away (mostly a result of him being aggressively dived on and pinned to the ground by out of control off-lead dogs whilst he was still a puppy). Then I get funny looks/comments because I'm the one walking the big, evil 'alsayshun' despite the fact it's their little ball of fluff that's being antisocial and getting in our faces.

Sadly you'll always get those arseholes who know better than you, or those who think because they've raised a couple of biddable labs they are dog experts. Oddly such people tend to be older men, and they really, really don't like being questioned by anyone else.

On a more practical note (and I realise you probably know this already) but do you have a favourite toy or food that you can use as a distraction when you see other dogs? Obviously it's useless once your dog has gone over threshold, but it can make the difference between doggy meltdown and getting away clean if you can distract at the point where SAS is tense and watchful but not yet flipped out. If my dog goes still and alert I pop the collar/jump around and squeek/ wave a tasty thing to get his attention back before all is lost. Timing is everything!

tooarly , I think you are wrong to say we cannot expect other dog owners to change their behaviour, if that behaviour is irresponsible.

I would like the dog owners who allow their pack of dogs to mob mine to call them back while we pass.

I would like the man whose GS attacked my dog to walk it on a lead.

I think both of these are reasonable requests.

I'm not expecting anyone to "change their behaviour" for me or the mad spaniel. I don't think asking someone to keep their dog on the lead it's already on for an extra minute is asking them to change their behaviour?

oddsocks yes, I think saying "he's not great with other dogs" first is a better tactic. I assumed - wrongly - that another dog owner would appreciate that if I was asking for their dog to be kept on its lead while we got past, it was for a valid reason not just a whim!

ChasingDogs yes, I use treats as a distraction as he is very food-motivated! Contrary to the impression I've given, he has actually improved quite a lot since we got him and if we pass another dog on the street he has started to look for a treat which is exactly the response we want - for him to associate other dogs with enjoyable tasty goodies and therefore a positive experience!

In my opinion, YADNBU I had something so similar just last week. My dog can be aggressive with other dogs due to a bad experience when she was a puppy when another dog really was so aggressive with her. So I keep her on a lead unless there are no dogs about and then I let her off. So we are walking along a road, Genesgirlsdog on the lead being well behaved. This other dog is off lead and is heading towards us. I move over to the side (wide pavement) and ask the other dog owner to put his dog on a lead or call it back. He either ignores or doesn't hear me. To be fair he was a bit older and perhaps did not hear. My dog growls at his and his backs off. That is the truth, no more no less. My dog on lead and totally in my control. To which the other dog owner says 'Is your dog aggressive?' I reply along the lines of my introduction. He starts saying 'People like you really annoy me with uncontrollable, untrained dogs'. I thought he was joking and couldn't quite believe it as my dog was on the lead, I have given him a warning and my dog at the end of the day had only growled at his. As it was clear from his face he wasn't joking. I pointed this out in no uncertain terms as to me I was in the right as my dog was on the lead. He went off muttering about my 'irresponsible dog ownership'. I was a bit upset but still think I was in the right, as are you! And I have been in the other situation where Genesgirlsdog has been off the lead gone up to another dog and been aggressive. Then I take it on the chin I AM in the wrong. Unfortunately some dog owners, like people in general cannot see that they are ever in the wrong!

I guessed you'd already know trick #1 but it's always worth repeating just in case

In that case if I were you I'd just focus on his improvements and write today off as one of those bloody annoying but can't be helped minor set backs. It's easy to forget the times it all goes to plan as the good stuff, unless it's a major breakthrough, doesn't stick out as much as the bad stuff does it?

I do know how you feel, it seems like it's taken bloody forever to get stupid-mutt to walk in more built up areas without him lunging/throwing himself on the floor/making enough noise to panic the entire village whenever he sees another dog, or bird, or an interesting person, or a particularly noisy car... I've stubbornly persevered and now have a dog that will walk calmly through a city centre at my side, and if me and my very stupid hound can do it you and SAS can do it too

I don't get people telling me their dog is friendly very often, but what I do get is huge dogs running up to my little dog and their owners watching while their dog knocks my dog flying or chases my dog round and round in circles while my dog is screaming in fear and I'm yelling at them to call their dog off.

Very similar attitude to the 'my dog is friendly' mindset. Very difficult to educate some people in responsible behaviour.

YANBU

You are definitely NBU. Asking someone to keep their dog on the lead until you got past sounds, to me, clearly like you are talking about the needs / reactions of your dog - not theirs!