To think that many families are leading a sort of "half life" in the UK at the moment?

[AwfulMaureen]

Or is it just me? We're really not well off ...DH is a painter and decorator and I work for myself part time and earn about 200 a week. We have recently moved into a Housing Association home and it's very cheap but we still struggle.

The girl who lives opposite us is a single parent and she is REALLY struggling with a newish baby and a part time job...she can't pay her council tax.

I know a teacher, again a single parent and she is constantly living in fear of losing her home as the mortgage is such a struggle....she never buys anything new at all and has barely enough to pay for school trips.

The only people I know who are ok are those with two parents in professional careers who both work full time.

Those in unskilled work aren't really managing and those who ARE skilled but have no partner aren't managing. It's really shit.

Weatherall - Is it due to many people now settling down later though? We married very young so have a good amount of equity, car, holidays and a quite decent lifestyle on manual workers jobs, didnt go to uni at 18 as I did it around my job when older etc. The reason we have got this though as we are 30 and have had a shared income and both worked full time for 12 years the same as my own parents and gps did.

People arent going to have as much if they start out older.

i agree with Cogito and sunnyday.

my grandmas: one married to a controlling alcoholic and from a generation when divorce was not acceptable. one lost a child aged 5 to an illness that could now easily be cured.

all working class and lived hand to mouth.

Oh yes. Can't afford half of what my parents gave me, despite them being uneducated working classes in low paid jobs, and me and dh both in professional jobs until 2 years ago. Me part-time, I admit, but so was my mum.

Cost of living, especially housing, has skyrocketed , inequality levels as they were in early 20 century (from dorling's 'injustice'), government is of the rich for the rich and doesn't give a damn - does not even understand, how can millionaires empathise with normal folk. Real value of wages falling. Debt as standard way of life.

Uk Supposed to be one of the richest countries. Where is all the money? In hands of the rich. Bloody pissed off about it.

I grew up in a council house on a really rough estate, I have a charmed life compared to my parents. I guess it depends where you come from, the only way was up for me.

I grew up on a council estate with two parents who worked full time and I had a marvelous life. That was a traditional working class life...there were four children, a car, a holiday every year and lots of birthday parties, great Christmases...my parents watched their money but we never struggled.

Now, my DH and I can't provide the same thing. I have an excellent degree and SHOULD be providing more than I had as a child. But I'm providing less.

CatfromJapan I think the "thing" which keeps the masses down and not complaining is called television and cheap food...in addition to cheap alcohol.

OP if you worked full time as your DM did could you provide more for your family?

I grew up with a single mum on a council estate with 2 sisters ...she worked 3 jobs to keep us going ,we never went without. Had all the stuff my friends had st school etc but she had to work 3 jobs to get that.

i can provide my daughter with the same things without working. Due to help from mum and government.

I agree with you. My husband has a decent, professional job (earns 30,000 ish). I am a SAHM. If I worked, I couldn't earn enough to cover childcare. We struggle to pay the bills. We shop at Aldi. We have never had a holiday other than visiting family, and on occasion that has had to be cancelled because we can't afford the petrol. My DH and I have holes in our clothes. I have one outfit and one pair of pyjamas, that I wash and dry quickly to wear over and over again. My dh has one pair of shoes that does all occasions. We struggled to buy DS's school uniform. DH walks to work (45 mins each way, all weathers) so that we don't use the car during the week. We inevitably run out of money before the end of the month, we never have coffee or lunch out, and after rent, bills and food, there is literally nothing left.

Until last year we lived on 12,000 a year for the family - we are not better off now as our tax credits then were decent, and none at all now.

But we're not poor, compared to many people. I think this is just the cost of living today, and that many families struggle, who you wouldn't think would be struggling.

I don't understand the tax credits thing. If my husband worked less (self employed) and only earnt 12000 would they make it up to 30000? Instead of earning 30000?

I think the UK is a bit of con in that it is expensive to live in and you don't get much money for it. So YANBU to see through that. I once went on a cycling holiday through rural Eastern Europe with some friends and we were joking that Eastern European peasants (sorry if that term offends, I don't mean it to) had a better standard of living than us professionals. Not least because in the country at least they all lived in detached medium sized houses with big gardens, seemed to be out and about in daylight and looked healthy and well fed.

But YABU to think there is some magic wand that guarantees a high standard of living where you don't have two full time and/or well paid workers in a family. Isn't that from the 1950's or something, when women were routinely discouraged from having careers or paid less than men for the same work? That's why I studied hard - to ensure I got into a well paid career and was able to buy a nice house. I'm not a member of the aristocracy, so I didn't expect someone else to provide me with a high standard of living if I didn't go out myself and work.

As for a half life, when I was working full time, for 4 1/2 months of winter I would hardly ever see daylight. It was dark when I left home, and dark when I got back. Weekends were for catching up on chores or taking work home or sleeping. So I can really appreciate now that I can work part time and do something free of charge, like go for a long walk not worrying about getting back for a deadline, on a sunny day.

UI, can you get onto your union? Does your phone record? Can you record them, and then play it to your union rep? Their treatment of you is appalling. Do keep notes of what they say and do, with dates and times.

I suppose it depends on your expectations of what Life should be like.

If you were living in many parts of the world, your Life would consist of getting enough food and water to feed yourself and your family for another day, day after day. Every day that you did not starve would be a success, and I doubt that they feel that they are living a "half life" - they don't have the luxury of disappointment perhaps..........

U.I (not calling you the full version, because you're not)

I'm so angry on your behalf, you are being bullied, please take the advice you've been given so far. nasty horrible bastards. (The bullies not the mners)

Today, I'm like my parents in that I run a cheap car, don't do designer clothing etc and the money saved from keeping up with the Jones's gets either spent on fun days out or invested for the future.

why assume that people who choose something other than a 'cheap' car, or who have designer clothing....buy those things to 'keep up with the Jones'? You don't think that people are able to make decisions for themselves about what is important to them and use that to determine how they spend their money? Does having an 'expensive' car mean that someone has made that choice simply to show off to their neigbhours/friends/family/the rest of the world?

Are there not factors such as location (house prices in the south east or London vs. those in the north west, for example), commuting distance from work (more money spent on petrol, possibly a need for a 'better' car to be safe, secure and comfortable when driving for hours), job type (one that comes with a uniform rather than an expectation that you wear your own clothes).....and endless other things, all have an impact on how the average family is spending money?

"my parents watched their money but we never struggled."

How can you possibly know they never struggled? How can you know what choices your parents made when watching their money and what spending priorities they set in order to provide you with parties and Christmases? My working class family had holidays every year but they were self-catering in the UK long after others were flying off for package tours to Spain. When thrift is the standard way of life, the children in a family are usually not aware of it.

I don't understand the 'SHOULD be providing more' bit the OP wrote, especially if she works part time and her DM full time.

Some people go up, some down. My DH and I have almost identical jobs to my parents. One of us is a high professional earner and the other a middle professional earner. We have a nice life but our income cannot provide the same amount that it provided for my parents 25ish years ago. I think that shows that living expenses have risen.

Cogito ...er...because they are my PARENTS and we talk. Our house was never "done up"...they chose not to buy new furniture or to decorate...so that we could have other things in life. We discuss things...you know...talk about stuff....our holidays were also in the UK...self catering. I thought and still do that this was lovely. Fine. If I could do the same for my own children, I'd be VERY pleased.

But, OP, what do you expect from Life ? You sound rather bitter and not a little whiney IMO.

Seriously, compared to the majority of the world's population we (in the UK/West) are very privileged.

Some people have a lot more stuff than others. Bigger house. Better car. More holidays. Designer clothes.

So what? I guarantee that you are wealthy compared to someone else.

A friend of mine works for the NHS and earns £23K. She went to Uni with me and has the same degree, but went to work in the pharma industry instead of staying on in academia -so for years she was doing pretty well. She was married for several years, but has no kids, but her marriage broke up when he started being violent so she had no choice but to leave him and also had to get an anti-harassment order. In the years that she was married he bullied her into giving him most of her salary each month and so, when she started her divorce, there was nothing left and, as she and her husband owned 2 houses, she wasn't eligible for legal aid. Then she lost her job and, due to a particularly violent incident, had to leave her home and everything in it. Luckily she had the other house so was able to move in there, but it had been rented out to some members of her family and she couldn't very well ask them to leave, so had to move in with them. Then she lost her job and was taken ill and so couldn't work again for 6 months. As there is no pharma industry as such where she now lives, and no jobs going, she had to take a much lower paid one in the NHS. This all happened a few years ago. After her divorce - which she's still paying for because that and other legal fees have been secured on her house - she discovered that her husband had taken out loans and credit cards in her name and never paid them off. So she is now having to because they are also secured on the house. This has adversely affected her credit rating to the point where she can't get even a payday loan. After everything has been paid each month she is left with less than £100. Sometimes she can't afford the petrol (and def not public transport) to get to work - and can't explain why, obviously, so has to invent reasons for working from home or has to call in sick. She often has no money for food and gas or electricity and can go for days drinking only water. She has no social life and has cut herself off from all of her friends because she can't visit us or do anything with us. She only ever leaves her house to go to work. She has been told that she is stressed and needs a holiday - now and again she will take time off to save petrol costs, but then never leaves the house. She is lonely, isolated and miserable. She would like to meet someone, but dating, even if she could find someone interested in her, requires money and she hasn't got any. AS she got behind with her mortgage when she was out of work she is constantly living with the fear of losing her home. There is nothing in her life other than work anymore. That is the reality for some people. Honestly, it's not even half a life, is it?

Zeezeek- tell your friend to contact the citizens advice about her debt and money problems. Her dh had no right to run up debts in her name, that is fraud and she is not liable for it.

Jasminemai- my dad was 30 when he married and 35 when I was born so they weren't better off because they started younger. It was just easier to buy a house in the 70s than now.

As for the various comments about UK vs 3rd world poverty- go and visit families living in the most deprived places here. Slum housing, no heating, riddled with damp, overcrowding, high suicide rates, low (50s) life expectancy, kids whose only meal is school dinner, people in B&Bs who have no shelter or water during the day, food deserts where people can't afford the bus fare to any supermarket and have to eat convenience/tinned food, no fruit or veg, from local shop, front doors with no locks, no safe space for kids to play- the reality that's hidden from most people is horrifying.

weatherall - thank you. I will. And yes, you are correct. People in this country are too quick to dismiss problems that people have here as first world problems and then go on about 3rd world poverty. YEs, it is more extreme, but the bottom line is that in the UK, in 2014, people are starving, kids are starving, people are homeless, old people are dying because they cannot heat their houses. Someone once made comments like that to my friend- making her feel guilty because she could not afford to make a £1 charity donation because she didn't have a £1 left. I'm not saying stop helping 3rd world countries - but also remember that people here are also struggling and, in the case of my friend, they are not on any benefits, work full time and own their own home. They are just in a shit position.

I don't think third world poverty is relevant to this discussion. If we were living in the 3rd world then most of us would be living like that, and we would not be talking about it. It is the inequalities which exist in the UK which are so appalling.

Things are worse for me than they were for my parents. I can't afford the house & garden they could. I won't have anywhere near the pension. I cannot imagine my children affording any sort of a home - we own a flat, but the prices now are beyond ridiculous.

So.. we're worse off, and it's possible my children will be worse off than I am.

The current situation for many people in the UK is hard, and may be getting harder.