To be questioning viewing looking after kids as "work"

[Sunnydaysablazeinhope]

I'm a regular but nc because of the recent ID issues.

I used to be a city worker. I'm degree educated. I have since 2010 (dd1) been a sahp. The birth of dd2 prolonged this. We have been feeling our way and it's suited us. It is not easy. I struggled after dd1. Dd2 had severe reflux. It has felt at times like 'work '. As difficult as commuting, office etc. at times harder.

We are at a position now where I'm taking evening work via laptop. I have mentally struggled getting my head around it. I have for 3yrs bought into the idea my day stuff is work. I've read countless threads where it's described as such. I've read countless responses where it's described as such. I've composed both sides too.

Now, I'll be parenting (I choose that carefully over childminding etc) mon-fri. Working via laptop after bedtimes mon-fri. Dh works in city. He will co-parent (again I've chosen that term carefully) in evenings and weekends. We will grab our own headspace when we can through this.

Now, if I'm working after bedtimes I am reconditioning my viewpoint to day times as not being work. I've struggled for 3wks through despair, anger, resentment, martyrdom and I feel it's because I conditioned myself via media, other mums, other people, here, to view kids as work. But put another way I get five days with kids, work evenings and share eves/weekends. 3wks on I'm now confused. I think I'm happier through altering my view point.

When did kids become work? Is this recent fashion? Are they ? And how do you describe your week of parenting/work splits? Am curious. Btw I'm making no insult to others choices or my own.

If I pay someone to clean my house or do my garden its work. If I do it myself, its work.

If I pay someone to do my tax return its work, if I do it myself, its work.

See where I'm going... All need doing, some are enjoyable, some aren't.

Looking after children (your own or someone elses) is work. Its hard.

When its your own children you also love them and there are amazing moments (not everyone has a job with amazing moments) and you would do anything for them, for nothing. Doesn't mean it is nothing.

Agree with others that you are overthinking. What is the actual problem? Are you feeling guilty about something?

I think of being a parent simply as life.

I work out of home ft. 6yo at school and after school care. Her teachers and carers are working. My 2yo is with a childminder who is also working.

I'm still a parent when I am at the office but I am relieved of certain work involved in looking after my DC.

At home evening and weekends I have my home life.

But if I was at home ft with young DC, yes I would call that work - it's an occupation after all.

I think I'm trying to say what thecat has said.

Just because its enjoyable and you love your children and would do anything for them doesn't mean its not work. Its ok to love what you're doing and for it to also be physically and emotionally demanding.

Difficult - looking after your children would be work if someone else was doing it (childminder, nanny, nursery) - so what is it that makes it different if you are doing it? Just interested - is it the fact that you're not being paid, or something else?

I'm a SAHM (cards on the table), and I think I do consider what I do work. It's got things in common with work - it is demanding, challenging, fulfilling, rewarding, requires a set of skills. It differs from any paid work I've done in that it isn't target-driven, performance isn't easily measured, etc etc. But thinking of it as work doesn't mean I don't enjoy it. Of course I have days when it isn't enjoyable, but I wouldn't change any of it, it isn't work in the sense of "an awful duty I have to get through"!

You've got me thinking about this. I don't see looking after my dd as work, I go to work Mon-Thurs and I love our Fridays together.
Of course if I was looking after someone else's child, that would be different.

There is a big problem with the general definition of 'work' anyway. There is, currently, the idea that anyone who is not earning a wage is not 'working' and therefore a lazy parasite. This doesn't just apply to parents, either - the individual who is not employed but who spends his/her days doing the elderly neighbour's garden, minding another neighbour's DC for an hour, picking up litter and collecting jumble for the village fete can still be described as 'not working', whereas the individual who sits in an office playing Candy Crush on his/her phone most of the day and occasionally sending an email is 'working' purely because s/he recieves a salary.

Looking after small children can be relaxing, rewarding and fun if you're strolling through the park or having a happy singsong together - not so much fun when you're scrubbing shit out of the bath or picking up a billion Hama Beads from the deep-pile carpet.

people use the term work as opposed to sahm or housewife because it makes them feel valued and less inferior to working parents

clear?

work = activity involving mental or physical effort done in order to achieve a result.

clearer?

I thought you were pithy, PersonofInterest.

I so agree with SolidGoldBrass's post.

I really think we need to resist this urge to conceptualise non-waged work as not-work, and leisure, and actual, real, doing-nothing as morally wrong. Especially if you are not extremely well-off.

I actually believe it is important for humans (and children especially) to have time where they actually "do nothing" - filling that time as they please, but with no imperative to be instrumentally engaged.

I strongly suspect that the demonisation of "not-working" (being both non-paid work; low-paid work; enjoyable work; and actual not-working) has gone hand in hand with the erosion of the idea of social welfare.

deaky

Interesting that you didn't mention the second definition

'Tasks to be undertaken or done'

Hence, digging the back garden is hard work, cleaning the oven can be hard work, looking after a screaming 6 month old all day can be hard work, dealing with my FIL can be hard work

A job to me is paid employment, looking after your own children is not a job

There is an insinuation that 'work' is always a negative thing. I 'work' hard at being a good parent, despite the fact it leaves me emotionally and physically exhausted at times. That's not to say it's a negative thing - it's tough and wonderful in equal measure.

However, after my mat leave for ds1 finished, I couldn't wait to get back to work part time and I found being at work much easier than being at home. Now I've got dd2, both are hard. I'm a teacher and I don't view my holidays like I used to - I look forward to them but I don't get to have the same kind of rest or freedom I used to before kids. I'm constantly tired and run down, and I rarely have any time off. In that vein, I view my whole life as hard work at the mo.

SGB I have to tell you that nothing ever gave me more satisfaction than colour coding Hama beads into a divided box bought from the sewing shop. It must have had at least 40 little sections and gave me such satisfaction . Sad really.

I think dd learnt much about her colours and counting because of it. Not surprising she can be an anal little prig really.

Of course it's not work.

It's slavery.

Interesting posts.

All making me think. Janey68 that's been part of it. Dh has his weekend which is time off. Which I defined as work. So where was my weekend? I did the same stuff. But I'd defined it as work so what was rest? Recreation? I am thinking too much but I guess ive had time....? (Not meant flippantly)

Long, agreed. I chose the definition work. I guess I had none better. It's not been easy and at times I've despaired I'm just wondering if I've done it a disservice. And why have I labelled it this way? I'm actually not now sure it's helped. I think and this sounds forlorn, it was all I had. I definitely don't know I had words for it. Hindsight I'm questioning but it always 20/20 isn't it. And wondered what others did.

Heggate, I'm not sure I've ever questioned what was work and what wasn't. This might be the first time ! Or at least questioned accepted definitions. But a changed world of blogging and being paid for stuff that isn't what I accepted as work but is now and changing norms is I think making me wonder what I've accepted. I really bit into this definition. It felt better. I'm wondering why now things are changing.

Kernowal yeah I'm confusing myself too. You could be a slash maybe? Or is that just a parent...?

Thecat I was surprised by how angry I was. And how vocal of I looked after the kids and now I'd work every evening too? Which is effectively what dh does in reverse but hopefully they are asleep... I felt I was doing it all. That I should be thanked. If I'm doing it all what's he doing? I was really cross. And he's very supportive. He's a good parent. He does what he's able or I ask. What happens to others? I realised it wasn't it or him but me.

I've realised this could be best split. I'm home with kids. It's dunno about recreation but it's home. I work evenings. He becomes primary when I can't. We share weekends. I think it could work. But I also see I've talked myself into that. I've repositioned it. I'm redefining my identity? And then I wondered if I'd been wrong if I'd bought an ideology and kids weren't work. Something felt feminist but unsure what and I'm not sure if any of it was felt by others. Hence this.

I wonder if it might not help you to conceptualise both parenting and your paid work as "work", and then to acknowledge that you are, in fact, working rather hard.

If it suits you - good. It does suit some people. However, many people do need down-time, and sleep: it's not copping out to say you need that.

I am a little worried that at the base of your quest to understand what "work" means is a sense that your dh is, in fact, letting you do the lion's share of the work in your family. He won;t be the first, or the last, to let that happen. In my experience, hoping that your partner will wake up one day, magically realise that he has been a bit naughty letting you work yourself into the ground, and beg for you to let him take up his fair share of the load, is a misplaced wish. You;d be better wishing to wake up to discover the world is made out of chocolate: it's more likely.

If that latter situation is, in fact, what is going on with you, you need to stop trying to reconceptualise your parenting as non-work promptly. Your partner is almost certainly doing that very adequately. You probably need to put some work into acknowledging what you are doing as labour.

That said, I think there is a horrible truth in the idea that modern parents are working insanely hard. There may, in truth, be nothing either of you can do to make the pressure less intense. But denying how hard it is may not be helpful.

I don't know. The above sounds so bossy and dogmatic. The truth is, I really don't know. Please take what you wish and may be able to put to use: leave what is not helpful. And good luck.

OP: how much time every week do you get/did you previously get to do stuff that's just for you? EG meeting a friend, having a manicure, seeing a film, going to a class or meeting of a hobby group, reading a book (without DC climbing over you/wanting a drink/needing their bums wiped). And how about your partner? It's all too usual for the one who is earning a wage to be the one who gets all the available child-free, chore-free time.

I consider looking after the children and work as two totally different and separate things. However, neither is exactly leisure time when you have two preschoolers.

Some days I do children all day, some days I work and co-parent in the evenings. On any of those days 8 - 10:30pm ish is actual leisure time, when I can relax and do what I want. My friend does all day every day with the children and works evenings, her leisure time is maybe 2 evenings a week or 20 mins instead of a couple of hours in the evening. I think she works harder than I do, even though we spend approximately the same number of hours in paid employment.

I personally would not like to look after two toddlers (and presumably the house, cooking etc.) all day, then work in the evening. It gives you no time to relax by yourself-read a book, go to the gym, watch a movie, go for dinner etc. It just means you are on the go all day selflessly giving yourself to others. I would do it for a period of time to achieve a goal/help myself etc. It may not be work as such but you are busy all day to extent that any 'work' has to be left to the evening. Too often woman end up doing more than the man in a marriage.

I work full time. Before I had children, work and recreation were, perhaps, more easily defined. Work was what I did when I was undertaking paid employment. The rest was recreation. It was recreation whether I was sitting on the sofa staring at the TV, mopping the kitchen floor, dancing in a club, or clearing the gutters. When we decided to get a dog, all the feeding, walking, and looking after was still recreation. When we decided to have children, I continued in the same frame of mind. It was a lifestyle choice we had made and, whilst undeniably requiring a lot of effort, I felt it was recreational. I am a Brownie leader. This is what I do 'in my spare time', a phrase which screams recreational, and I doubt most of the parents have any idea how much effort is involved. This afternoon I dug over my allotment which definately involved hard toil and labour but was most certainly recreational.

I'm rambling a bit but I think my point is that you shouldn't spend so much time and headspace worrying about whether what you're doing is work or not. Anyway, the word 'work' tends to have negative connotations and, however much effort it is looking after our children, we shouldn't want to think of it in negative terms.

I think that the thing which defines being a staph as working isn't necessarily the looking after of the DCs but all the peripheries that go with it.

As the sahm you are generally also the one planning, shopping, budgeting, organising, cleaning and tidying, cooking, washing up etc. All of that IS work (wife work!) and it is all of that which sucks the joy out of being a sahm for many whose partners don't help or share the load at weekends etc.

That's where the difference comes at a weekend when a wohp can say "ooh lovely 2 days off" whereas a sahp still has to do the same household jobs/work that they do all week long.

Staph should be sahp

LyndaCarter That's where the difference comes at a weekend when a wohp can say "ooh lovely 2 days off" whereas a sahp still has to do the same household jobs/work that they do all week long.

You do know that WOHP mostly don't have magic fairies doing their housework for them, don't you? The reality for most WOHPs is that what they really think is "ooh lovely 2 days off ... to do all the ... planning, shopping, budgeting, organising, cleaning and tidying, cooking, washing up etc. that I haven't been able to do all week whilst I've been out at work". It isn't different for WOHPs and SAHPs - it is exactly the same, just not spread out over 7 days.

Work make money, while kids make value.
In simplistic terms.

I think you should flip it. Instead of thinking about how much work you do, and how you define it, think about how much lesuire time you have. Is it broadly the same as your P? Is it manageable to do a shift with the DCs then a shift on the computer? If you are both more or less on the same hours then great. If not...

If you had to hire somebody else, it would be their work. Otherwise, it's just your life.

I like what MissMess said.