rubbish friends - am I better off without?

[maggiethemagpie]

Wasn't sure where to post this but could do with getting it off my chest/ 2nd opinions.

I have always been crap at making friends and didn't really have any at (private, bitchy, all girls) school. I grew up feeling abnormal and unlikeable.

Over the years I have improved my social skills somewhat but all my friendships seem very imbalanced with me doing most of the running/organising.

Lately I've begun to question whether I have any real friends, with a couple of exceptions.

I do have a couple of good mates that I've known since uni days, one unfortunately now lives abroad but we do catch up fairly regularly and I do consider her a real friend. The other lives round the corner, has a baby a similar age to my DD and we see each other around 2ce a month.

Then there are around four or five people I catch up with every month or two for a coffee -a couple I knew since sixth form colleg days but lost touch with until a few years ago, when I bumped into one randomly and the other found me on face book. Then there's one I know from a baby class with my son (who's now 3) and another I worked with around four years ago.
None of them know each other independently of me.
I am really questioning whether or not to continue pursuing these friendships as they don't seem to be working.

One of them has cancelled an arrangement to go out four times, we were supposed to go out before Christmas and she cancelled a couple of days before, since then it has been rearranged three times and each time she cancels a couple of days before. She will then say 'I must come over and see you next weekend' and never does, so if you include those as well that's like 6 times in a row she has not followed thru! We were supposed to go out tonight, on Monday I got an email saying she couldn't and I phoned back and left a message saying it was the fourth time she'd done this - later got an email denying this saying it was only the second time and she was 'put out' that I'd made a fuss.

The other girls I am in touch with I will quite often send a friendly text or fb message saying hi how are you and just get NOTHING in return. One of them I thought was a good friend, she came out on my birthday and we had a really good night. A few weeks later I texted her and asked if she wanted to go to the play centre - got no response at all. Waited a couple of weeks and asked her again on fb - again, no response. Not a dicky bird. Now we've been to the play centre before and she's invited me round to her house for play dates (not so much now she's gone from pt to ft work) and I know she's busy, but why can't she just say she's really busy why ignore my texts completely?

Its a similar kind of story with the others -if I do all the running/organising then they do come out sometimes and we have a good time, but boy is it hard work. I'm beginning to question - are these people really friends or just folk I hassle to have coffee with every now and then?

Is it normal to text someone and get no reply, not a feckin dickie bird?

Am beginning to think I'm better off without such 'friends' in my life. but I know that making that decision will condemn me to a life of loneliness as it's so hard to make new friends past the age of 30.

Mind you I'm pretty lonely as it is.

I have been pretty depressed about this, as it just brings back memories from my childhood when I was pretty much excluded from all the friendship groups at school. I've been seeing a therapist, he said that due to parental abandonment as an infant (my dad left, my mum had pnd and farmed me out to lots of nannies) I subconsciously expect rejection and feel I have to chase after people as I don't have any faith that they'll come to me. He said this could come across as needy and put people off.

I think that is probably true, and I am needy, but I don't know how to stop being! We all need friends don't we? I missed out on all that very close friendship young girls have, and sometimes think I'm still looking for that in my adult life, even though friendships don't really work like that now.

So should I ditch the flaky 'friends' and just accept that I'm not cut out for close friendships?

Sorry for the long essay!

Sack all of them

I'm sorry but you sound like very hard work. You say yourself you are needy. How can one person have so many issues with people.

not sure how much help I can be. I've been wondering if "not even bothering to reply" is the new norm and I'm just an old fogey who thinks courtesy is important.

Hi Coffee-tea. Would you like to expand? I'm not sure myself how I have so many issues, but I do! I don't feel great about it, but I am where I am and am trying to sort it out.

I think as you get older and have more family stuff then friendships either fall by the wayside or become more superficial.

Perhaps try and send something specific rather than hi how are you. I often get a text like that and if I'm busy sending back "fine thanks, how are you?" seems a bit pointless, so I think I'll wait and reply properly later, but I do sometimes forget

If you send an invitation or more specific question and still get ignored then I would try and make new friends. It doesn't have to be hard, my closest friends now are my DCs' friends' parents. I find I have more in common with them than people I met years ago at uni when I was a very different person. I do still keep in touch with a couple of old friends, but regular coffee and evenings out tend to be with school mums.

Try not to let your view of yourself as 'someone who finds it difficult to make friends' colour you judgment. If they are being rude then it's not your difficulty, it's their problem, being rude cows. It doesn't take a second to reply, "thanks but I'm busy, another time?" so if they're regularly choosing not to reply then the problem really is with their attitude.

Just noticed your dd is still little, you'll meet plenty of new people once she's older, at nursery or school and going on play dates etc. don't write yourself off yet!

Maggiethemagpie you really do have my sympathy. Adult friendships can be hard work and even if you are a little needy (I am not saying you are btw, just saying what you stated) then that doesn't give your 'friends' the right to never reply. It sounds as if the relationship is very much on their terms. I found this recently with a friend who only wanted to spend time with her partner, and then on the odd occasion she wasn't with him she would expect me to drop my plans at the drop of a hat in order to see her. There is more to the story and tbh it really upset me and then when I spoke to another close friend she made me see sense and realise what this 'so called friend' was doing to me, she was essentially using me.
Please don't waste your time with these people as it will make you more upset in the long run. You have a few close friends, like you say. Just try keeping busy with your DC as much as possible and show that you can have a nice, enjoyable life without these people. You never know, you may meet some new friends along the way. Your DC are still young so you still have parents at school to meet, parents from clubs your kids join and so on. Plenty of time to meet people :) good luck!

Wow CoffeeTea103 how mean. Op is trying to reflect on why she having issues. That's exactly what she's asking. She's looking for insight. Not just unconstuctive criticism.

Op, from what I understand having friends seems to be very much a numbers game. Some will work out, must will not. Neediness attracts users and insincere people. I would try cbt to learn how to become more self contained and less 'needy'.

Ironically the less you seem to need people the easier it is to make friends.I notice the most popular people take rejection less personally and are prepared to make plans even if only half the invitees turn out.

Not saying you could become a social butterfly overnight but just observing popular people can give insight into hire they are that way!

Into *how they are that way.

I agree,coffeetea: that post came across as quite callous. OP has been seeing a therapist- have a bit of compassion.

Coffee you sound mean and not very nice. Op sounds like she has low self esteem as it is. Sounds as though you have flaky friends. Why not take up a hobby, join some groups independently of dcs. Mabey try Mumsnet Local for meet ups in your area. I don't have many friends, just a few really good ones over tge years, we don't see each other all the time. It's better to have a couple of good reliable friends, than loads of fair weather friends.

It proves scarletfoya's point though doesn't it - show a bit of neediness/ vulnerability, even on a forum like this, and it attracts negative behaviour in people like coffeetea.

Clearly you feel you put in too much effort but do you think you might be focussing too much on this? Sometimes my friends don't respond to a text but I know they're busy and I don't feel personally slighted by it (and usually wouldn't notice). Maybe take a step back, and just consider them acquaintances and look for other friends with a similar outlook.

I'd relax, let the 'flakey' friends chase you if they want (and accept that they probably won't) and focus on building relationships with people like your nice friend round the corner with a dd the same age as your own. You haven't mentioned dd's age, but I'm assuming she's still very young. There are many years to come of school runs, playground gossip, sports matches, playdates etc.

Although my dearest friend remains one I made in university days, we hardly see each other. My local friends are virtually all parents of my children's friends, and several of them have graduated to meeting up for completely non-child related stuff.

Hi OP, just for a bit of perspective, I also get pissed off that some people who I do consider reasonably good friends can be quite flaky in the way you describe about cancelling arrangements. And I don't consider that I have any "issues" about rejection as you describe.

That may well be a factor for you in some of these instances, but you do have to accept that some people are fairly crap about returning messages, and sticking to plans. The only conclusion I have come to is not to take such "rejections" personally, and not to let it stop me trying to make plans for having fun. I also know that I can't rely on some people and have come to place more faith in my friends who are reliable.

Hopefully you will make more female friends through your children's school.
Best of luck.

But you have alsogot lots of support on here. I know its shit to be on the other end of this, but tbh after a day at work, commute home, cooking dinner, washing, admin, putting ds to bed im too tired to do anything. I barely contact family, let alone friends. So it might not be personal at all.

You also need to bear in mind that friendships are for a reason, season or lifetime. Youve got 2 lifetime friends - thats no mean feat. So i think you should try and find some more new friends. Have you tried a mumsnet local meetup?

Your friends sound flakey and ignorant tbh

Maybe just back off and wait for them to come to you. If they don't then fuck em you have your answer

I agree with redexpat.

The new friends just sound like they have busy lives to me. It's probably nothing personal. I wouldn't be surprised if they wish they had the time to catch up with friends/reply to FB messages.

I often find myself putting off getting in touch with friends because I want to wait until I have time for a "proper" catch-up, rather than a meaningless "hiya, how are you" "fine, how are you" exchange. Trouble is, time flies! I think (hope!) my real friends understand.

A thicker skin is what you need, if they don't reply after a couple of attempts then leave it & wait for them to contact you-if they don't then no they aren't real friends & you should ditch them. Life is busy though & it is very easy for a period of time to pass before you think 'shit I've not txtd X'...
I have a couple of good friends who I txt & see all the time & others only occasionally.

I can see what coffee was saying though, you do sound a little on the needy side & you should work with your therapist to get this sorted.

Hello Maggie sending a hot cuppa [brew[, and a hug.

I know how you feel as I'm the same as you. I do all the running in friendships and get little in return. I dont have any advise to give though, sorry.

Pick different friends, none of us are prefect we all have issues, you just need to find friends who fit in with who you are.

Thanks for everyone's replies. I do take things to heart - I think most people who'd had the bullying and ostracisation I'd experienced at a very tender age would come through with a few scars - and I am working on this with the therapist but it's not easy to overcome a lifetime of rejection. He recommended only playing one shot at a time eg text someone once and if they don't reply then don't text them again. It's hard though as every time it happens it pushes the 'abandonment' button and upsets me.

I know I am probably coming across as needy and others sense this - the problem is how to stop being needy when I am? Maybe I just need to let go of this ideal of having a close group of pals and have other stuff going on in my life so that I don't 'need' them as much? It's very easy for people to say 'don't be needy' but not so easy for them to say how to.

As for the friend that cancelled on me 4 times in a row, I've decided I can't do with the hassle, no point being friends with someone who lets me down like that. The others, I am going to leave it for them to get in touch with me - I don't mind doing the running 75% of the time but not willing to do 100% anymore.

I am a member of an nct babies group and that's quite a nice way of having a social life once a week, even if I don't see anyone from the group outside of the group it's still nice just to meet other mums. My friend with the baby the same age as my DD goes to that too.

Other than that I guess I'll just have to keep on working with my therapist on the past issues - we have defined what the problem is, but not so much the solution, I guess that will come in time.

It's sad that the way my parents were 35 years ago is affecting me so much now, I guess we all have a bigger responsibility to our children than many of us realise, in that respect.

OP I was you about 12 years ago! I wanted close, lovely, call-anytime-won't-let-you-down type friends and I felt that I didn't really have anyone - I had one sort of friend who I had previously worked with and she was very bossy in terms of where we went and what we did, and other than that just weeks and weeks of empty diary time. I decided to make a change, because I was only 22 and I didn't want to be in that position for the rest of my life.

Here are some of the active, conscious changes that I made. Some of them were hard at first - but all of them got easier over time, and now none of this stuff is conscious at all any more.

1. Don't say anything negative to someone that you don't know very very very well. Particularly don't say negative things about other people. Try to say something nice.
2. Keep it light. This one is key. You must be aware and keep reminding yourself that true friends, the type you can call at 3am with a crisis, are rare. You will be lucky to meet one or two of them in your lifetime. When you do come across one, cherish them. Do not make the mistake of thinking that this type of person or friendship is 'the norm'. It isn't . It's special and different. Most friendships are social, casual and fun.
3. Make the first move to speak to people in a new situation - e.g. first day in a new job, first day at school gates, first session of a new evening class. Don't wait for them to approach you - because if you do, someone else will walk in the door and approach them and then hey presto, friendships are forming and you're out of the loop. Be the first to say 'Hi, I'm emsyj, I'm X's mum/I can't wait for this class I'm dying to learn X/would you mind telling me where the loos and kitchen are'. It doesn't matter what you say as long as you smile a big smile and speak to them first. You will feel like an idiot doing this the first few times - but you will be very pleasantly surprised at how easy it is to meet people and make new friends this way. The people you approach and say 'hi' to will 99.9% of the time be relieved that you have broken the ice and delighted that they don't have to make the first effort. This is the hardest change I think, but honestly it does get easier very quickly.

I joined a baby group with DD2 last year and at the end of the final class, I just walked straight up to a woman that I had chatted with a few times and gave her a bit of paper with my number on and said, 'It was nice to meet you, here's my number if you fancy a coffee sometime'. That was a memorable moment for me because for the first time, I did it without even hesitating - it feels normal to me now. However much it feels like a 'weird' and 'forward' thing to do when you're not used to it, please believe me that other people will not find it weird or unusual when you do it. And yes, I have made a nice new friend of the baby group lady!

You can make changes but you need to remember to 'keep it light' and you have to accept that it will be an effort - and that maintaining friendships requires a continued effort also. Sometimes it means going on a night out that you have agreed to but don't particularly feel like - sometimes it means doing stuff like remembering someone's birthday and sending a card, or offering to babysit or whatever else. It's hard to find time for this stuff when you have a job and young children (I have a 1yo and a nearly 4yo and work FT) but it's worth it in the end. I would say it took about 2 years in total for the changes to have a good effect. Now I can honestly say (at the risk of sounding like a tosser ) that I would consider myself quite popular. I don't struggle to make friends or to keep them. I do still occasionally have times when I feel a bit neglected by certain people or when someone does something that I am offended by, but rather than take it to heart and get very upset/angry and end up falling out with them - I just avoid that person for a short while. Not being horrible, not ignoring them - but pleasantly being a bit busy for a few weeks - until the feelings of being annoyed subside. This doesn't happen often though. Also, I have quite a lot of friends now, so I am not as 'invested' in individual friendships so stuff doesn't affect me as much - there's always someone else to have lunch with or go for drinks with or arrange a playdate with or whatever.

Mostly my expectations of others are pretty low these days - which works well in the world of adult friendships. I don't really have a 'best friend' - I do have some good friends that I would have a bit of a moan to if I'm feeling fed up, but the sort of intense, do everything together type of friendship is unusual in adults - does happen, but not having it is quite normal and doesn't mean you're horrible or a bad person or that you're doing anything wrong.

What an essay!

Oooooh sorry me again - had to come back as some previous posters have reminded me of another bit of sage advice . Don't ever think that another person is upset with you or dislikes you unless they expressly tell you so. Other people's behaviour is all about them and not about you, and you never know what is going on in another person's life. A couple of times I have been hurt by people 'flaking' on me, and it has subsequently turned out that there were serious things happening in their lives that I didn't know about. If someone flakes on you, don't take it personally - but maybe pull back a bit and say (in a friendly, 'I know you're busy gosh isn't life hectic' way), 'why don't you let me know when you're free and we can rearrange' and put the ball in their court.