rubbish friends - am I better off without?

[maggiethemagpie]

Wasn't sure where to post this but could do with getting it off my chest/ 2nd opinions.

I have always been crap at making friends and didn't really have any at (private, bitchy, all girls) school. I grew up feeling abnormal and unlikeable.

Over the years I have improved my social skills somewhat but all my friendships seem very imbalanced with me doing most of the running/organising.

Lately I've begun to question whether I have any real friends, with a couple of exceptions.

I do have a couple of good mates that I've known since uni days, one unfortunately now lives abroad but we do catch up fairly regularly and I do consider her a real friend. The other lives round the corner, has a baby a similar age to my DD and we see each other around 2ce a month.

Then there are around four or five people I catch up with every month or two for a coffee -a couple I knew since sixth form colleg days but lost touch with until a few years ago, when I bumped into one randomly and the other found me on face book. Then there's one I know from a baby class with my son (who's now 3) and another I worked with around four years ago.
None of them know each other independently of me.
I am really questioning whether or not to continue pursuing these friendships as they don't seem to be working.

One of them has cancelled an arrangement to go out four times, we were supposed to go out before Christmas and she cancelled a couple of days before, since then it has been rearranged three times and each time she cancels a couple of days before. She will then say 'I must come over and see you next weekend' and never does, so if you include those as well that's like 6 times in a row she has not followed thru! We were supposed to go out tonight, on Monday I got an email saying she couldn't and I phoned back and left a message saying it was the fourth time she'd done this - later got an email denying this saying it was only the second time and she was 'put out' that I'd made a fuss.

The other girls I am in touch with I will quite often send a friendly text or fb message saying hi how are you and just get NOTHING in return. One of them I thought was a good friend, she came out on my birthday and we had a really good night. A few weeks later I texted her and asked if she wanted to go to the play centre - got no response at all. Waited a couple of weeks and asked her again on fb - again, no response. Not a dicky bird. Now we've been to the play centre before and she's invited me round to her house for play dates (not so much now she's gone from pt to ft work) and I know she's busy, but why can't she just say she's really busy why ignore my texts completely?

Its a similar kind of story with the others -if I do all the running/organising then they do come out sometimes and we have a good time, but boy is it hard work. I'm beginning to question - are these people really friends or just folk I hassle to have coffee with every now and then?

Is it normal to text someone and get no reply, not a feckin dickie bird?

Am beginning to think I'm better off without such 'friends' in my life. but I know that making that decision will condemn me to a life of loneliness as it's so hard to make new friends past the age of 30.

Mind you I'm pretty lonely as it is.

I have been pretty depressed about this, as it just brings back memories from my childhood when I was pretty much excluded from all the friendship groups at school. I've been seeing a therapist, he said that due to parental abandonment as an infant (my dad left, my mum had pnd and farmed me out to lots of nannies) I subconsciously expect rejection and feel I have to chase after people as I don't have any faith that they'll come to me. He said this could come across as needy and put people off.

I think that is probably true, and I am needy, but I don't know how to stop being! We all need friends don't we? I missed out on all that very close friendship young girls have, and sometimes think I'm still looking for that in my adult life, even though friendships don't really work like that now.

So should I ditch the flaky 'friends' and just accept that I'm not cut out for close friendships?

Sorry for the long essay!

To be honest, nowadays life is so hectic that I often forget to call back friends. They may do too. But I haven't noticed any of the people that really matter to me as friends take offence. They understand I am so busy. I understand they are so busy. And we meet when we can manage. We pick up where we left. We don't preoccupy ourselves with who didn't return whose call or message. I know it is not ideal manners etc, but like I said - life nowadays is soooo demanding. And family is first.

By the way, I have a very demanding friend who was trying to not show her disappointment at my ignoring her most of the time (NOT on purpose - it is just that she is a stay at home mum and I work). She was following me everywhere (text, call, facebook, almost stalking, to the point I felt horribly guilty for not replying. One day I just called her and said - look, I really value your friendship, but I have my reasons (work, issues etc) and I really cannot dedicate as much time to our friendship as I would have wished to. So please lets take a step back and be in touch whenever, just not as often, because it is just not physically possible for me. Plus... I have other friends, you know. Plus, I am not the sociable type anyway, so by the time I do the rouds with my friends, a year passes easily.

I know it is easier said than done, but just increase the number of your friends. Find people who are willing to join you in activities and who actually have the time to do it. You don't have to limit to your current friends. Actually, sky is the limit. This is when you will stop being needy. Thankfully, friendships are not like relationships - noone will penalise you if you are 'cheating' with other friends, haha! Lighten up, OP. Don't take things too seriously and too personally.

I think there is a point when it's natural for people to just be busy - that point when work and family take over a bit - in ft work you may only get 25 days off each year and you cram what you can in to them - including birthdays, family holidays, Christmas etc it leaves few days free and weekends are time catching up with housework, spending precious time with dc. Friendships are much more intense as a child and teen and can become like family in your twenties but things change and it's easy to feel bereft of that and your expectations of your friends will have to change - not to the point where you are treated like crap though.

Amazing advice emsyj!

OP, I think you are doing quite well to have two close friends you feel are genuine, plus a group of looser acquaintances. I think you've put your finger on it yourself - because of your past experiences, you are more likely than most to feel abandoned when a friend cancels or doesn't respond (though the friend that cancelled four times in a row is being rude, and owes you an apology and some form of explanation if there is something difficult going on in her life.)

I'll give you an example from my own life - I've had a friend since my schooldays, and though we haven't lived in the same country for years, and are very different, I still consider her a friend. I last saw her in October, and since then until a few days ago, when I saw her again, I never picked up the phone when she rang, or phoned her myself in response to her answerphone message - I had an episode of depression, and some difficult things were going on in my life, and I always withdraw when that happens. Yet there was no recrimination - I explained and apologised, she understood, and there we were, the same as ever.

Yet a different woman would have seen my behaviour as a massive rejection, though it was nothing to do with her, it was all because of my own difficulties, and the fact that my response to hard times is to clam up.

(I don't agree at all that 30 marks some kind of cut-off point for friendships. I'm 41, and have moved around a lot, and if I see someone I like, I will act to see more of him or her.)

Thank you emsj and well done on making your situation better. I'm not really shy, I can get talking to strangers at baby groups fairly easily and even do the swapping numbers thing if I really think we got on, but my problem seems more to be maintaining friendships than making them in the first place. For example the 'friend' who did not return my messages, I met her at a baby class and asked to swap numbers. We've known each other a couple of years now and were in contact every few months - I've no idea why it's gone off the boil recently. The last time we met, she had a quite drunken rant about her husband, who's diabetic and she said he was not looking after himself. Well I'm diabetic and it's one of those things where unless you have had it yourself you've no idea what it's like or how hard it is, so I did jump to her husband's defence a bit. But surely that is not enough to cancel out a friendship completely?

What I really need help with is how to keep that balance, investing enough effort to keep the friendship going without so much that the other person thinks I am being clingy. Or maybe they just get fed up with me and there's nothing I can do but get out what it goes cool. I dunno - the beginning bit is ok it's just later on it all goes to sh1t.

Thanks emsyj. Some very useful tips

Shame on you CoffeeTea for such a spiteful response. Great post emsyj it will be useful for all posters who can relate to Maggie's problem. Good luck OP, hope you have success with emsyj's ideas.

Great advice there from Emsyj!

I agree that the key is to have a large quantity of friends, or acquaintances.

I have found that the busier you are, and the more friends you have, the more people actually approach you and invite you to things, because you are not perceived as needy.

Well you are more than halfway there if you find you can meet and make friends easily - I really struggled with that part for ages! Keeping friends for you will, I think, probably involve lowering your expectations of people and, as others have said, having a bigger 'pool' of friends to call on. I still quite often say stuff to myself in my head before I say it out loud to someone - to see how it sounds and whether it might be interpreted in a negative way. Not all the time, but if you are making a comment about something sensitive - like your example of your friend talking about her husband - think twice, pause, really consider what you're saying. I'm not saying that I never say stupid stuff or hurtful things etc - I definitely do! But I am a lot more careful about that stuff than I used to be. If in doubt, say nowt. Just smiling and listening is all you need to do if you're not sure what to say.

Possibly your friend just wanted to offload and didn't want advice or to hear you defending her husband, perhaps they are having serious marital difficulties and this was her way of venting a bit, maybe she is now a bit embarrassed at what she said because she momentarily forgot you were diabetic too etc etc - there could be lots of things going on here, but don't take it too much to heart. I would leave her alone for a while until she comes back to you - which she probably will.

CarrieBradshaw is spot on that a bit of popularity breeds a bit more and then there is a snowball effect where you are invited to everything. Then you don't feel as upset if you have a bit of a low point with a particular friend - you just leave them alone for a while and see other people until it blows over. This should be quite easy to achieve for you given that you're not shy - just go to more places and meet more people and soon you will have a much wider social circle and won't dwell on individual friends so much.

I thought of one more whilst I was in the shower!!!

You say in your OP that none of your friends know each other independently of you - does that mean you usually meet up with them one on one? If so, have you thought about trying to form some groups instead? I think in general that a group dynamic is more free and light than a one to one sort of friendship, which might make it easier for you to keep things light during social occasions. For example, if there had been say 4 of you there when you met up with your friend recently, and they were all fairly newly acquainted with each other, it is unlikely that the 'rant' would have happened. And even if it had, you would have been able to see how others reacted and what they said - it gives you a bit of a barometer.

I prefer to do things as a group because I think it's less intense and less pressure - also I find people generally are more willing to agree to group stuff as it doesn't feel as big of a commitment. If 6 of you are going out for dinner and drinks and something comes up for one person, the other 5 can still go and it's 'shrug-whatever-see-you-next-time' rather than the whole event cancelled. It sounds like this might work better for you for a host of reasons. Just start introducing people who you think might get on. I often do this at my house as then it's clear that I am 'hosting' and that people aren't going to get left on their own somewhere!

Thanks Emsyj and others - good advice there. I feel like now is a bit of a watershed time for me in my life with this issue. I've been having a really powerful therapy and getting a few skeletons out of the closet re childhood issues, it's been really painful but in a 'getting teeth pulled out at the dentist' way -you know you'll feel better for it later.
I am going to lower my expectations of people and try and keep things light above all. I can be a bit like an overexcited puppy when someone shows me a bit of affection - run over with my tail wagging with a big neon psychological message on my forehead saying 'please be my friend!' and it probably does put them off. I've known this for a while, but actually changing it is the hard bit.

I think part of it is actually coming to terms with and mourning the loss of the friendships that never really happened when I was younger.

I'm going to try and get my social life from baby groups and meet up type things for a while - today is unusual because it's my friend's partner's birthday (the good friend who has a baby the same age as mine) and they are having a barbeque and inviting loads of folk. This literally only happens to me about 3 times a year but will stop me feeling too bad over the easter weekend.

Then it's onwards and upwards I guess but I am not going to chase people who don't give a monkey's anymore - I don't mean I'll cut them out completely the minute they don't reply to a text but I just can't be bothered with chasing people who aren't bothered, think I'd rather go without.

I think you are overestimating the number of close friendships that the average busy Mum has, and the number of times many people get to meet up with their wider group of friends for coffee etc
The fact that you only go to an event like your friends big BBQ with loads of people about 3x per year is unremarkable to me, but it sounds like you think that is very few.
May be something to think about

madonnakebab - I meant only happens to me as in, I get an invite to something which I haven't initiated myself, but I see your point. I think I've lost sense of what's normal - or my idea of what's normal is a little skewed as I don't think I had normal experiences when younger. So I am quick to assume that I'm having this abnormal, inferior experience when it could be nothing of the sort.

Also I was friends with a big group at uni,(sort of and stayed in touch with some of them over the years - they are mainly all still living in the same place we went to uni and even though they have kids of their own now still see each other all the time. So that's kind of become a bit of a reference point for me, but maybe most people don't live like that.

I know a couple of people that seem to have very vibrant, active social lives, and I've observed them on FB and in real life for quite some time. I think the secret is they 'hustle', for want of a better word, all the time. The one that I know best is always, always trying to meet and get to know new people. I have noticed that at the school she never stands with the same person two days running at pick up; instead she stands with different people all the time.

I don't have that active a social life, but that's because I'm quite lazy! I can't be bothered to put the effort in these days to stay in touch with hundreds of friends.

i Can't really offer any advice but want you to know your not alone.I had 2 friends at school who both moved on and ignored me when we left and now at 32 years old I have 0 friends. I was friendly with a girl a few years ago but once she had the baby clothes off me she wanted she stopped talking to me. Although I'm very lonely a lot of the time being a s.a.h.m I decided it wasn't worth worrying about. My m.I.l always ignores my texts too.I sent her a long one telling her about my son as I thought she wanted to be informed I know she got it because I get a d next to messages when they are opened but she told my husband her phone wasn't charged. I hate

it but I think people are just rude.

Ha - that's like me Emms, I had a friend, more of a friend of a friend really but I'd known her for a while, and she had a son a year after me and I gave her all his baby clothes. I met up with her and another friend at the playcentre one time, my son had been travel sick on the journey as it was out of town and she had a massive go at me for bringing my son over when he was 'ill' and then ignored me for the rest of the time - the irony that her son was dressed head to toe in my son's clothes at the time was not lost on me.

Well she never got any more clothes out of me after that so more fool her!

not that she actually had any concern for my son's health, she just didn't want her kids to catch what she thought was a bug.

Unfortunately there are a lot of using arseholes around. It's a shame but you are better off without friends like that.

I could count on one hand the amount of 'friends' I truly have. Two of them are friends I played with growing up & we now have children of our own.

The other is a friend I made through work & we've become very close, thinking nothing of dropping into one another's house when passing.

I am however, very very fortunate to have four sisters who I see as friends.

I am shy, backward, mousy even - yet am in a job where I'm stereotyped to be loud, noisy, obnoxious and nosey.

Emsyj gives great advice - one other thing I would say is not to judge others by your own standards. I am an organiser, a thinker, a doer, my sisters aren't.

When they're ill, I'll visit, I'll clean up, I'll cook - it's the way I am - when I'm sick, I'd be lucky to get a text message.

At the end of the day, people treat you the way you let them. I have found that out over the years.

You're worth a great friendship. Do you live near me?

Thanks Eva. I live in South Manchester.
Well, I just got back from my friends barbeque and had a good time. Interestingly, I have always thought of them as very popular people, they certainly were at uni but there weren't that many people at the barbeque today. That kind of made me feel a bit better, in a 'well I'm not doing quite so badly then' way. A few years ago, pre kids, there would have been loads of people round but now they've had kids of their own they've really slowed down a bit.
Anyway I had a nice time catching up and even managed to say hello to some people I'd not met before (having a very cute baby helps - people always want a cuddle with her - until she pukes on them that is)