to resent well off 60+ people that get free unlimited bus travel

[SuzzieScotland]

I can't afford a car, so I walk, cycle or bus everywhere.

The bus costs almost a pound a mile so it is seen as a treat for me.

A yearly ticket is 1000 or if your a student you can buy a £12 bus I'd card every year and get a yearly ticket that costs 750. This seams far too expensive.

Yet I see many pensioners who run two cars using the bus to get into town or to the airport totally free despite being well off. I think their would be uproar if a 20 pound admin fee a year was applied to these bus passes. In London a year ticket is 3k but anyone over 60 gets unlimited tube and bus despite 100000s of them still in full time work.

Just seams like the young and poor are getting a very raw deal to win grey votes.

I'm 27, pay my taxes and presumably will do for a long time yet but I don't imagine I will get "my turn" if and when I eventually retire. Times are changing.

But surely well off pensioners have worked all/most of their lives, have paid their taxes and if they are very well off at the higher rate of tax.

My parents worked bloody hard all their lives, had their own businesses but worked 14-16 hours a day 6-7 days a week, paid all their taxes.

They run two nice cars but dad uses the bus to take the dog to the local country park as it cost £4 to park to take the dog for an hours walk. Or he walks the dog through the common to the supermarket and gets the bus back with the shopping.

Why would you begrudge someone who worked all their lives? It's not their fault that the government is raising the retirement age!

Both my father and FIL are well off pensioners who use their bus passes. However the world is a safer place with them taking the bus instead of driving.

Wealthier pensioners tend to pay quite a lot of tax one way of another.

I really dislike the argument that 'the wealthy' shouldn't get anything in the way of financial consideration from their own government. Especially as people's perceptions of wealthy so drastically.

I appreciate that there is a limited amount of money to go round, but the idea that that money should only be directed at one section of society is just wrong to me.

Everyone who contributes should be able to benefit at times in their lives when they need it most, that's why I agreed with universal child benefit, and why I agree with universal pensioner benefits.

Haven't read tall the pages here

My parents would fall into this category. two cars (one on mobility). I think buses maybe easier for them as cheaper than parking fees to get into town, and if going a bit further afield, its a bit of a day out for them. They're probably not classed as 'well off' but might seem it (or might be better off than they project . . . who knows?!!)

Where I live it costs the same to get the bus to town and back as it does to park for the day and walk a bit. The decider has been the weather.

bustraintram AFAIK the bus passes are paid for by both a capital subsidy (so they cost money even if not used) and a fare per passenger per trip taken. It is difficult to work out the exact costs though as some of those costs are paid by central govt and some are paid by local govt if I recall correctly.

The cost is pretty minimal - sadly not the case. A repot by the intergenerational foundation estimates the cost at nearly. 1.1bn across the UK. That's a third of the entire former higher education funding budget (that was removed in order to charge young people 9k tuition fees). To put it in perspective, when the government stopped funding higher education from public money, the cost of funding HE was around 3.9bn per year (a tiny drop compared to the nations pensions budget). The cost of capital grants (not loans; capital handouts) to private transport companies can be up to 5bn per year.

Report:

www.if.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Fare_Concessions_For_Older-People_DEFIN.pdf

(To clarify my last post, that figure for capital grants to private/privatised transport companies also includes the privatised rail companies and so on, not just the buses and the pensioner bus pass.)

I bet a lot of people who are always looking for ways for others to have less, and resent people having perks, will be quick to stick their hands out and grab the free bus pass when there time comes. Just like some of those who benefited from perks such as free Uni education back in the day but begrudge the same for the younger generation now.

I have not read all of the thread, I am just astounded so many do not feel their elders deserve any perks.

OP

I'll swap you, you can have my bus pass but in return you have to take:

Rarely able to get to the bus stop to use the bus
Buying theatre / show tickets and not knowing if you will be a) well enough to get to the venue b) able to get to your seat
Not being able to work for years
Not being able to cycle, sit, stand, walk, lie down without pain
Not being able to use a bus before 9.30 am so if you are working and able to use the bus you still have to pay
Not being able to use most tube stations

Oh and you can pay the £1500 I have to pay for adaptions every three years to have my car (technically not my car, the one I hire) adapted.

Fair swap?

People are not having to struggle more today as pointed put up thread, people just have very different ideas of what standard of living is acceptable these days.

As for blaming the bankers again?? I think you will find that a lot if the problems were made by the tosser in charge if the countries bank dishing out money willy nilly thus skewing the economy and draining the nations account.

it's a bit like the arguments surrounding the winter fuel payment

I don't like the idea of stopping another group of people from getting a "welfare state" benefit. I think that a few universal benefits mean that everyone feels included in the welfare state, but if these are taken away then it loses support. So no, I wouldn't means test free bus passes (nor would I have means tested child benefit).

Mind you, in my utopia, I'd have free bus travel for all and I'd build enough council houses to be available for everyone, so what do I know?

Uptheairymountain: Yes, enough council houses for all and stop the Right to Buy, otherwise it's a pointless exercise.

I used to work for a bus company. The bus companies are not fully reimbursed for the fares that the over 60s would have paid, and so in many areas bus services have been cut. So the benefit of having the pass is reduced, and often the services cut are in the evenings or to rural areas.

I doubt our bus service would survive without the subsidised fares of pensioners.

Many I know wouldn't use them as much if they had to pay - so they would be lost to everyone.

I too think that we can't afford 'perks' for wealthy pensioners anymore.
Yes, most of them have worked very hard, and deserve a good standard of living. But do they really need free bus travel?

It has had an adverse affect on many bus companies across the country. As others have said, in most cases they don't get the full ammount back for the journey.
This leads to either cancellation of certain routes (often rural ones, which are a lifeline for some), or increased bus fares for others.
This is why people can get resentful.

I think it

Bugger, sorry

Bugger, sorry!

A bit off-thread but related.

My European colleague at work recently turned 60 and received his Freedom Pass.
I seriously informed him that when you press the pass onto the bus reader, it shouts out "PENSIONER!" to let the driver know its a free pass.
He so believed me and didn't use it for 2 weeks until I told him I was joking.
Bless

WalletInspector If you don't get your turn when your time comes it will because people like you were mean or foolish enough to run with OP. It's your fair share as well as ours that people like me are defending.

I actually think it's a really nice thing, rich or not.

train so it's both a capital subsidy and a fare? In which case my earlier point stands- the capital subsidy is wasted money for those who never use the tickets.

Have now switched from stupid phone to computer.. Anyway, I think it would be useful to reasses who actually needs free travel and frankly what a 'pensioner' actually is and I know pensioners who feel the same. This is my Dad's viewpoint: He has a bus pass. He works full time with hardly a grey hair on his head in a management position at a large company. Most of his colleagues (in their 20's/30's) didn't realise he was that old when he joked about getting his pass. He drives everywhere, the only time he uses public transport is if the car is in the garage for something. What does he need with a bus pass? As I said that's my Dad's opinion. He would much rather the money went to someone that needed it regardless of age. He spent a lot of time job hunting over the years and would prefer to see free travel go to people who need it regardless of age.