To not make my DD go to sixth form/college

[LetsTryThisAgain]

and instead let her do an apprenticeship instead?

My DD is 16 and in Year 11. She's very bright and is predicted mostly A's and a few B's for her GCSE's but she's not academically motivated IYSWIM. She is adamant that she doesn't enjoy school or formal education at all and wants to leave as soon as possible.

Career wise she's very arty and wants to do something involving art and design. She's been applying for apprenticeships over the last month or so with the aim of starting one once she's finished school. I should add that she's done that entirely off her own back without any input from me and she's secured a graphic design apprenticeship to start in late July/beginning of August which seems the perfect fit for her. She will get paid £100 a week for it, obviously not a lot but from a 16 year olds point of view that would seem a lot and she's very excited.

When I told my parents about this however, they were shocked. They said that she'd be "ruining her life" by not going into sixth form and "throwing her life away and not end up with a good job". They said that I should "make" her go to sixth form to do A Levels or at least college to do "one of those BTEC-y thingies" The worst thing is they've also expressed this to DD and she came home from a visit with them pretty upset. When I asked what they'd said, she said that "if they were her mum they would kick her arse into sixth form" . A few of her teachers also want her to stay onto sixth form too. sigh

The thing is though, she really doesn't like formal education and can't think of what to study if she did stay on. She's said she'd study Art and maybe English literature or History but she doesn't know what else she would study. When I asked about BTEC's at college as a possibility she said they appealed even less than A Levels but she would probably do an Art & Design one if she had to do one. The thing is though, I doubt my parents would even approve of those subjects anyway as they are of the belief that only Maths/Science subjects are worthwhile and arts and humanities are pointless. So they would probably whine about her choices there.

I don't want to force her to do subjects she's not really interested in and would probably end up doing badly because she's not interested if you see what I mean. So probably pointless anyway.

A few other people think I'm mad too by letting her do this, but most have been supportive.

Please tell me MNetters that doing an apprenticeship won't doom her for life.

(I'm a name changer for this because some people in real life know I'm on MN and I don't want them snooping my other posts)

As you say, if she decided she wants to retrain as a doctor/lawyer/anything later in life then if she has A levels she could do so no problem. People of all ages go to uni, and nobody would bat an eyelid. Or there are other options like Open Uni. But if she doesn't even have A levels/B-tec/an equivalent then for most subjects she would have to get them first, and there isn't the same provision to access those.

Also, if she takes a few years, she'll have commitments and different lifestyle requirements. If she's got children or a mortgage she may not be able to take 2 full years out to do A levels, then another 3 at uni. If she does both part time (which is still really hard to mix with childcare/paid employment), it could end up taking at least 10 years to retrain, which is a huge commitment, and a financial drain.

If she returns to education later (I'm thinking 20+) wouldn't she be more likely to do an access course rather than A Levels? Access courses are aimed at mature students who have been out of education for some time and who may have other commitments (children, bills, job, etc) after all...plus they only take one year instead of two.

This is going to sound stupid but I had no idea adults over 18 could actually do A Levels at college. Around here all the colleges won't allow anyone over 18 to do them and they'd steer you in the direction of an access course. They make it pretty clear that A Levels are for 16 and 17 year olds only.

If she's unlikely to go to Uni, A Levels would be a waste of time anyway IMO

I got all A*'s and A's at GCSE. I did A Levels (without thinking too much about it...it was just what was 'expected' and I had no strong feelings either way) & had 3 A Grades.

Then I took a 'gap' year before Uni, started at an entry level job with a large financial institution, loved it, and never went back.

I've done very well since, I've climbed the greasy pole to management level, done financial exams and have a NVQ Level 5 in Management...my CV looks pretty good atm.

BUT...I haven't 'benefitted' from A Levels one bit. When I started my first job, the only requirement was GCSE's at a decent grade. Where do you ever see jobs advertised where A Levels are required? They're either bottom-of-the-rung jobs that require GCSE's, or graduate positions.

The bit in the middle is kind of pointless unless you're going to go all the way.

She sounds very sensible, you need to think very carefully about going to university these days. My son, who left at 16 and did an apprenticeship is doing very well and buying a house at 25 yrs, not something his siblings on the university route can do. Also there is no point in making her, 'you can lead a horse to water.............'

Thanks for the link Lets try :)

LetsTryThisAgain, she didnt get lucky, she got committed, intelligent, resourceful.

Dont down play her achievement in securing this apprenticeship. It is a really impressive.

She sounds fab. Motivated, interesting and independent. Let her do the apprenticeship. She will gain valuable skills and make herself very employable.

She can always put a portfolio together for art foundation application when she is older if she wants to continue her art education later on.

You are right to be proud of her. Getting that apprenticeship all on her own was brilliant. And she can go back to a levels any time but apprenticeships are a very short term opportunity. Don't just 'let her' do it, stand up for her to your parents and her teachers.

You have to let her do what makes her happy. Simple.
Life is far too short to do things that make you unhappy and she may end up resenting you and the school for being stuck doing subjects she hates. I am a secondary teacher and I see students all the time who get to 16 and are just much better suited to practical apprenticeships, work experience etc. They are SO much happier when they go on to do whatever they have chosen. Parental support is key though. I say let her do her apprenticeship. Her grandparents are being unfair and ignorant

Well done her for securing an apprenticeship.

It would make sense, though, to research what qualifications she will get, the requirements for more senior roles in the field and financial implications if she wants to change course later (eg would she be able to get government funds to study for A-levels, or an art and design foundation course, if she was aged over 19, or had done an apprenticeship?)

Info for people seeking "level 3" qualifications after the age of 19 (National Union of Students website):www.nus.org.uk/cy/advice/money-and-funding/im-a-student-aged-19-years-old-or-older--what-further-education-funding-can-i-get-in-england/

Depending on what qualifications the apprenticeship entails, she might need to pay to study something later, either to change track or progress.

Good on her! One of my friends did exactly the same. Most of us went to uni, she went to work for a graphic design firm as an apprentice. She works for herself now and is doing really well.

As others have said,if she wants to go to uni later there are access courses and the OU.

great idea and kudos for her
I am sure she will do well as she is going to do what she chosen!

ccskills.org.uk/careers/advice/any/design/

Creative and Cultural Skills site - skills body for the design sector, potential source of info.

I would try to persuade her to work really, really hard to get good results this year firstly before she starts her apprenticeship, rather than think, she's got the apprenticeship, so she doesn't need any more qualifications.

Then, as others have said, if she gets the qualifications from her apprenticeship and it all goes to pot, she can do an access course and go to university then.

This is what my eldest did. He's now in his later twenties and happy that he's now doing the course he wants, rather than just settling for anything at 18.

Apprenticeships are very difficult to get so she has done well.

Ive worked for a training provider that arranges apprenticeships, a lot of the rime its just a big money makkng scheme and the employers only do it for the cheap labour and grant from the gov.

If its with a well known company and you can really see what shes going to get out of it and experience working for that company would be desirable then I'd have no problem with it

Business admin is someone wanting a cheap secretary/ receptionist.

I know a lot of companies that have taken on 5 sales apprentices to give themselves a very cheap telesales team

Yep jigsaw I said this upthread and will repeat in case it gets missed - do make sure it is a good apprenticeship, with a clear training path OP and don't be afraid to whip her off it if its rubbish. Sadly, there is a lot of it about.

I'm not saying this in any way to piss on her parade, I think she's done really well, but you do need to keep a motherly eye on things. It is how easy it is for companies to exploit cheap labour in the current climate.

This is going to sound stupid but I had no idea adults over 18 could actually do A Levels at college.

I did German to AS Level at the local college at evening classes. There weren't enough of us wanting to carry it on to A2 for them to make it feasible to run that, but they did say we would be welcome to join the day students (we'd have had to pay the same fees as if for evening classes.) I couldn't do that, as I work full-time, but one of my retired classmates did. That was only about 3 years ago.

Also, my sister went back to college after her first lot of A-levels didn't go too well, and she started again from scratch, completely different subjects. She didn't have to pay fees, because she was still under 19 when she started.

At 16/17 nothing is permanent and she can have multiple career changes in the next few years.
Well done to your dd on being proactive and focused. She is obviously very capable and knows what she wants to do right now.
All I would say if she asks for advice give it. My dp didn't offer advice and I wouldn't ask for any so would have appreciated some support when making decisions at a similar age.

The apprenticeship will include qualifications, so she is being paid to get some amazing work experience and qualifications. What more could she ask for, you must be very proud of her.

Apprenticeships come with a number of different qualifications. Depending on the level of apprenticeship - if it's a 2, then the qualifications she will do are equivalent to GCSE grade A-C, if it's a level 3, then it equivalent to A levels.

She will do a Diploma (old NVQ - skills assessed on the job), technical certificate (equivalent to the old BTEC - theory) and she will also do functional skills in maths, English and IT. These are not an easy option at level 3, they really stretch you.

An apprenticeship at level 3 can also get you into Uni in some cases, if she wanted to do a degree at a later stage.

There are lots of people out there with graphic design degree's who can't get a job because they have no work experience. Your fantastic daughter will have both.

Good luck to her.

My dd sounds just like yours - she fully intends to do an apprenticeship . She too is bright but prefers the practical to academia. I have a degree and a post graduate and a prof qualification but that's because I like to study and I hate the assumption that uni is the thing for all - I feel my dd would hate it but it is pushed to young people by schools especially when a child could go .

Let her do what she wants to do and don't worry about what anyone else thinks. My mum made me go to college and do courses that I didn't want to do. Over 2 months I went to 3 lessons and spent the rest if the time skiving off with my friends. The college asked me to step up my attendance or leave so I left and got an apprenticeship and qualified in what I wanted to do imo an apprenticeship will give you way more skill as you will be learning in the working environment

I had the opposite. I wasn't allowed to stay on at school or go onto university. I had to 'get out there, get a job, and contribute to the family finances' It has bothered me my whole life. I've done courses etc since then but it still rankles. I say listen to your DD. she's been proactive finding out about apprenticeships and now has an interview. Good for her!

I also agree that your parents are a bit out if touch with how the system works nowadays.

Mine has done the same, I wanted him to stay on but he didnt want to. Hes now in his 2nd year of an electrical machanical engineering apprenticeship and loves it.

Let her do it.