To not make my DD go to sixth form/college

[LetsTryThisAgain]

and instead let her do an apprenticeship instead?

My DD is 16 and in Year 11. She's very bright and is predicted mostly A's and a few B's for her GCSE's but she's not academically motivated IYSWIM. She is adamant that she doesn't enjoy school or formal education at all and wants to leave as soon as possible.

Career wise she's very arty and wants to do something involving art and design. She's been applying for apprenticeships over the last month or so with the aim of starting one once she's finished school. I should add that she's done that entirely off her own back without any input from me and she's secured a graphic design apprenticeship to start in late July/beginning of August which seems the perfect fit for her. She will get paid £100 a week for it, obviously not a lot but from a 16 year olds point of view that would seem a lot and she's very excited.

When I told my parents about this however, they were shocked. They said that she'd be "ruining her life" by not going into sixth form and "throwing her life away and not end up with a good job". They said that I should "make" her go to sixth form to do A Levels or at least college to do "one of those BTEC-y thingies" The worst thing is they've also expressed this to DD and she came home from a visit with them pretty upset. When I asked what they'd said, she said that "if they were her mum they would kick her arse into sixth form" . A few of her teachers also want her to stay onto sixth form too. sigh

The thing is though, she really doesn't like formal education and can't think of what to study if she did stay on. She's said she'd study Art and maybe English literature or History but she doesn't know what else she would study. When I asked about BTEC's at college as a possibility she said they appealed even less than A Levels but she would probably do an Art & Design one if she had to do one. The thing is though, I doubt my parents would even approve of those subjects anyway as they are of the belief that only Maths/Science subjects are worthwhile and arts and humanities are pointless. So they would probably whine about her choices there.

I don't want to force her to do subjects she's not really interested in and would probably end up doing badly because she's not interested if you see what I mean. So probably pointless anyway.

A few other people think I'm mad too by letting her do this, but most have been supportive.

Please tell me MNetters that doing an apprenticeship won't doom her for life.

(I'm a name changer for this because some people in real life know I'm on MN and I don't want them snooping my other posts)

Don't make her go, it is a waste of time if she doesn't want to, she will not benefit from it anywhere near as much as she will from something she wants to do and enjoys. She's old enough now to make her own decision.

I did an apprenticeship aged 16 that involved working full time and I loved it. I got a better job in the industry at the end of it and although I didn't stay in that area I feel it gave me a wonderful start and work ethic.

She sounds like she knows what she's doing, though it may be later not having a degree can make it harder to get graphic design jobs www.dreamincode.net/forums/topic/139140-do-graphic-designers-need-a-degree/

I am a massive advocate for young people staying on at school and getting qualifications but in the case of your DD i would say let her leave and do the apprenticeship. If it is something she really wants to do and has sought it out herself then she is more likely to stick with it. If all else fails she can go to college in the future to do her A levels.

I think she sounds amazing, I would be hugely proud if one of my kids had done this

£100 a week at 16 while training to do something she loves is fantastic, & I think apprenticeship schemes have automatic increases every year? & no debt at the end of her training.

What's the alternative? 2 years at 6th form, with maybe a Saturday job for pocket money, then 3 years at uni, ending up after 5 years with debt of at least £40,000 & not necessarily a relevant job after that!

Your parents are just wrong & it's a shame they have upset your DD. Make sure she knows how well she's done, & that you are 100% behind her, & that she should try to let her GPs' criticism just wash over her

Good luck to her

If she doesn't any to stay at school then I wouldn't force her, it will only make her miserable. As you say she won't want to put effort into a-levels as she doesn't want to do them.

She sounds very level headed and motivated in getting an apprenticeship sorted of her own back. It's not like she's planning to just sit on the sofa all day.

If she does the apprenticeship and doesn't like it there's plenty of time to go back to formal education, I stared my degree at 24 with the open uni. Unless its changed in the past two years then college is free or heavily subsidised for over 19 year olds who don't have level 3 (a-level/b-tec or equivalent) who are on benefits/low income.

Fwiw I think you're doing the right thing in supporting your dd. Ignore your parents and friends who tell you to push her into college/sixth form as it will only make both of you miserable. She has a chance to do something she loves and get paid for it and at the ends he will have great work experience in the field and she could even end up with a job.

you should be rreally proud of her and let her do what she wants to do.

in terms of her future prospects, my DD's BF left school at 16 & worked with his dad as a joiner, but alongside helped out a neighbour who was a DJ, & after a while started DJing himself. He has a lot of electronic kit & gets plenty of work, but he's in his late 20s now & doesn't want to spend his life DJing things like weddings!

He has no post-GCSE qualifications but on the strength of his experience & personal statement has got on to a 2-year degree-level sound engineering course starting in September.

I imagine that your DD would be able to do something similar later on if she does find that the work she wants to do requires a degree (but MariaJenny's link was American, it may not be the same here)

I was forced in to VI form.

I hated it. I could see no point in it.

I would set off on a morning with my bag but rarely arrive. If I did I didn't take notes.

I believe this is when I started with depression.

It was both the worst 2 years of my life and a complete waste of time.

30 years later I'm still bitter.

Well done to your DD for having the initiative and wit to nail this. Apprenticeships like this will be scarcer than unicorns with competition to get on them to match.

You should be very proud of her.

Now follow her lead and tell your parents to keep their blinkered opinions to themselves. Remind them that their job now is to say 'well done' and sound like they mean it.

Far better she attempts something like this than be forced to do something she doesnt want.

So many nowadays go to uni, do a pointless degree and never use it. The loans never get paid back and so a sheer waste.

She will probably stand a far better chance of a job with experience under her belt than a student.

I would let her do the apprenticeship. At school I was always getting high grades so was pushed and pushed towards university over working for a while or something more vocational. I still feel angry about it now because, yes, I've got a nice shiny degree but I've never used it.

DS refused to stay on at school at 16, and joined the Army only to be medically discharged a year later.

Again I wanted him to go to college but he got himself a Electrician apprenticeship.

He is now 36 and owns his own business.

Best thing he did

The rest of the Family thought he was mad at the time as everybody else had gone the Uni route

Of the 9 grandchildren 3 can't get a job, after 4 years if Uni

Ds went to sixth form and hated it. He stuck it out and got good A levels but refused to consider uni. He's 25 now, he earns more than all of his friends who spent 3 or 4 years in uni, he has no uni debt and his employer is currently funding him on a masters on day release. It was right for him because it was what he wanted to do just like it will be right for dd if that's what she chooses.
My dd's friends are just about to leave uni or go onto PGCE, not one of them has secured employment that they couldn't have secured at 18. Dd went to work in a bank as was her choice, she's happy with her choice, later on the bank will fund her degree too.

I was academically bright but not motivated at school just like your daughter. I decided that I wanted to be a chef and applied for college doing NVQ's instead of sixth form. My school teachers and the college course teachers all tried to talk me out of it saying that these courses were not really appropriate for me as i had been predicted mostly A's and B's and the course didn't really have any academic requirements so i should do A-levels instead.

However my parents never tried to influence me and fully supported my choice. Id always wanted to be a chef and so were happy that id made my own choice.

I had a blast at college but after work experience realised that the industry wasn't for me (being spoken to like dirt, unsociable hours, very low pay to start etc etc) and so went about exploring my options. I had to do 3 years at college instead of 2 years as i would have at A-levels but did that to get myself onto a university course that interested me. I think it was a valuable lesson to work out for myself what i wanted to do and i enjoyed my college years so much i still wouldn't change them for the world.

Your daughter is an individual. Let her do her own thing and support her. If she was looking to get a non-skilled job just to earn money instead of furthering her education then yeah, maybe try to get her to reconsider, but she isn't. She has got herself an apprenticeship in a field that she wants to pursue and even if there is no academic aspect to it, she will be getting relevant experience which is definitely not worthless.

She can return to full time education next year if she changes her mind, or take on an evening course if she wants to continue working but gain some qualifications.

Id be very proud of her if I was you. She knows what she wants and has already taken steps to achieve that. Not something that can be said for many 16 year olds.

The well known phrase 'you can take a horse to water, but you can't make it drink' applies here.

You could make her go to college but she doesn't want to be there, so would not learn.

You are totally doing the right thing.

Hello OP, can I tell you about my personal experience - I work in Graphic Design and none of my colleagues have a specific degree in it, they have all approached it in different ways, including my boss. I however, went on to Sixth Form, picked three A Levels that I wasn't really that interested in just so I could do A Level Art & Design. My DM made it very clear that I HAD to do A Levels. My grades were pretty average. I then did a National Diploma in Art & Design for one year then went on to uni to study Graphic Design for three years. I managed to find a job straight away and there I realised that most of what I had learnt during my stepping stone education wasn't that relevant or just wasn't enough. I have learnt more by being in the job itself.

I don't regret getting my degree, part of my motivation for doing it was to get away from my hometown. I wanted to be somewhere else and the easiest way for me to do that was to go to uni. I wish I had approached it differently from the beginning though and I might have cut a couple of years out of my education to get to the same point.

I say let your DD do the apprenticeship if that is what she has a passion for. she sounds like she has done plenty of research. I would recommend getting further qualifications along the way but I think this sounds like an opportunity too good to miss. She will learn a lot more doing an apprenticeship than she would doing A level Art & Design (which I actually hated!)

My DS was adamant he didn't want to go on to do A levels etc. he was quite bright but just didn't like school.

He left school after GCSE's and got himself a job in the local supermarket, it was amazing some of the comments we got i.e. fancy letting him work in a supermarket etc. He worked his way up to be manager of his department at the same studied at night computer studies.

He eventually left the supermarket and went to work in computers now aged 38 he works for a foreign bank in London as a Desk Top Support officer on a good salary and he enjoys his job.

I admire your daughter she has researched and found a job on her own and as others have said she has plenty of time in the future to study further if she feels she wants to. Doing A levels and going to University isn't for everyone and I feel if you forced her as your parents suggest you should she may be very unhappy and struggle because she didn't want to do it and blame you for making her.

You should be very proud of her and I am sure you will support her in whatever she does.

Your daughter has an apprenticeship. If she was leaving at 16 or even 17 without something with a structure of training/future job then you would have been right to be concerned. As it is, arranged off her own initiative, you should continue to be supportive.

She sounds ace. Not many 16 yos could have managed that on their own.

I do think you should take a look at the apprenticeship itself - there should be a training path and progression and she should actually gain a qualification at the end of it. (And that qualification should hopefully be enough to get her into uni to do a graphic design course in the future, or at least get her onto a foundation course, so the further study option isn't closed forever). It's worth just checking though that it's all above board and worth while. I'm sure it is though.

Tell everyone else to get their beaks out. It's her life!

Anything she has been motivated enough to sort herself is worth many times more than drifting or being pushed into something.

It sounds like just the right choice for her and even if it isn't, she'll soon discover that and could still to A levels a year later if it came to it.

She knows what she wants to do, she's sorted out an apprenticeship by herself - a lot of parents will be envying such focus and motivation. Definitely support her.

Your parents will survive her not going to uni - in any case, as others have pointed out, if she finds she does want or need to do that later in life, she will be able to. It's not like she's just intending to sit around with her feet up watching TV all day.

There are lots of young people at university because it's the done thing, and they've never really thought about what they want to do. If your daughter is one of those who does have a strong idea, and is doing things to make it happen - that's definitely something to celebrate and support. Best of luck to her.

Hi LetsTry,

I think it's great that your daughter has a clear idea of what she would like to do with her life and has actively researched this - I too would be very proud of her.

Would it be possible to let me know where/how she found an apprenticeship in graphic design?
This is the kind of thing my daughter would like to do but is struggling to find information about.

I agree with you completely that it shows initiative and enthusiasm to research and get the apprenticeship herself, and also that havign a degree is no guarantee of getting a job. If it was a choice between going to Uni and doing the apprenticeship I would whole heartedly agree this was the best choice for your daughter, as you describe her.

But...apprenticeship rather than A levels? I don't know, I think A levels are seen as the bare minimum for most jobs now. According to the BBC, university entry levels reached 49% last year, so I imagine the percentage doing A levels/equivalent must be in the high 80s/90s? People are so underemployed now, that if she did decide to apply for a job not in her chosen field in a few years (even a low wage admin role) she could be two whole stages below other applicants.

As you say, if she decided she wants to retrain as a doctor/lawyer/anything later in life then if she has A levels she could do so no problem. People of all ages go to uni, and nobody would bat an eyelid. Or there are other options like Open Uni. But if she doesn't even have A levels/B-tec/an equivalent then for most subjects she would have to get them first, and there isn't the same provision to access those.

Also, if she takes a few years, she'll have commitments and different lifestyle requirements. If she's got children or a mortgage she may not be able to take 2 full years out to do A levels, then another 3 at uni. If she does both part time (which is still really hard to mix with childcare/paid employment), it could end up taking at least 10 years to retrain, which is a huge commitment, and a financial drain.

Is there any way she could maybe do at least one or two a levels as well as the apprenticeship? I know it might be hard if it is full time, but I did this; did my 3 'academic' A levels in school, and then took another 2 in more vocational subjects two evenings a week. I looked on them more as a hobby, than further studying because they were something I was interested in.

namechangeno1 she found her apprenticeship using this website. I think that's one of the main websites for apprenticeships tbh although the connexions website also advertises apprenticeships.

Although she's said that there wasn't really that many in terms of graphic designer/art based apprenticeships -although there were loads in business/admin. So maybe she just got lucky?