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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to be horrified at the toxicity of the are in London

53 replies

Pleasejustgo · 11/04/2014 19:51

I am shocked at how many otherwise healthy people are suffering from terrible respiratory ailments in London and surrounding areas at the moment. WTAF is going on?

OP posts:
Quinteszilla · 11/04/2014 22:58

All those damn people driving humongous 4wd diesel cars in London.

They should be all forced to downsize into small little electric numbers.

MooncupGoddess · 11/04/2014 23:04

I've lived in London for years and never had black snot or respiratory problems. However, the bloody tree pollen gets me every time.

tiggytape · 11/04/2014 23:13

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

hm32 · 12/04/2014 07:53

About a year ago I had to go into and across London for train transfers. I had my baby DS with me and remember feeling so guilty I'd taken the poor wee mite into such pollution. It has always been awful, but as a teen/young adult I didn't notice as much. I do remember going away on holiday though, having no asthma for two solid weeks, then arriving back in London and reaching for my inhaler straight away!

katese11 · 12/04/2014 08:13

Wow, such hysteria on this thread! yes, air pollution is a problem but London is relatively clean as cities go. Have a look at the 2011 air pollution index [[http://www.who.int/phe/health_topics/outdoorair/databases/cities/en/]] for a bit of perspective

katese11 · 12/04/2014 08:15

fancy linking didn't work!

www.who.int/phe/health_topics/outdoorair/databases/cities/en/

HPparent · 12/04/2014 08:23

Well I am a life-long Londoner and have always lived, studied and worked alongside busy roads. No one in my family has any breathing or lung ailments.

I don't notice the air pollution on a day to day basis except for the dusty greasy grit on the windows and window frames/sills.

My parents could remember the pea-soupers, the thick smogs that persisted until the 1960's and were indeed life-threatening. There are some world cities that are a lot worse than London unfortunately.

My mum lives in idyllic countryside near a nuclear power station, the dogs seem to get rare cancers from the beach and my husbands family live overseas in a lovely location but with chemical factory effluent flowing into the sea, with suspected effects on locals. I don't know who is worse off!

Quinteszilla · 12/04/2014 08:29

Katese, have you seen the news lately?

Your link tells me that air pollution in other places of the world was REALLY high back then, but that does not mean that pollution in London is not high now. We are not talking about opposites, but of grades of pollution, and being high in other places does not mean low in London.

As for more recent news, www.bbc.com/news/uk-26856285

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/air-pollution-reduces-life-expectancy-by-six-months-for-every-briton-9251260.html

and
www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/dec/18/london-air-pollution-2020-vehicles

And in September 2011 London was deemed the most polluted in Europe. www.theguardian.com/environment/2011/sep/07/london-worst-european-cities-air-pollution

How healthy is going for a jog really?

katese11 · 12/04/2014 08:38

I said the link provided perspective, which your post doesn't Quinteszilla. How can London be the most polluted City in Europe if Milan, Rome and Dusseldorf rank lower (in your link)? And Europe isn't a great comparison on global terms, hence the UN link

Quinteszilla · 12/04/2014 08:42

The perspective that your link gives me is that the world is fucked. If London is "not bad" compared to places where people need masks on their face, and pop into oxygen bars now and then, it is still not saying that London is ok, or that the pollution levels are "not high". They are high, maybe not as high as Beijing, but so what?

Should we accept it?

A certain level of Hysteria is good, in this case.

Pleasejustgo · 12/04/2014 09:20

Quint, quite.

Katese11

It might be comparatively better but comparing it to hideously polluted cities makes me want to weep into my friend the asthma inhaler. I think a better perspective would be to measure all pollution against no pollution in all instances.

Incidentally I have rosy pink lungs (up until now it seems).

OP posts:
katese11 · 12/04/2014 09:22

Beijing is four times the level of London! (121 u/my as opposed to 29). Saying it's "maybe not as high as Beijing" is a gross understatement.

I'm navigating around the North circular atm (ironic, huh?) so please excuse me if I don't post again...

brokenhearted55a · 12/04/2014 09:26

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

StatisticallyChallenged · 12/04/2014 09:43

I'm not from London, but I do notice the black snot issue when I'm down for work. However I think for me it's mostly related to the tube. When I was down for a long training period there were a bunch of non-Londoners and it was referred to as "tube nose" as we all suffered from it

limitedperiodonly · 12/04/2014 10:04

It's the tree pollen at this time of year. Thank God I live in the rats' cage. If the trees round here have that much effect on me I'd probably suffocate in the country.

ImAThrillseekerHoney · 12/04/2014 10:08

To be fair - they haven't done "nothing", the Low Emission Zone has been progressively strengthened since 2008, and will clean up all the tfl buses still further by 2015 but a) it doesn't cover private cars and b) it's not as good as hoped at cleaning up NOx emissions.

I love London, and actually last week's smog was the first time I've had Tube nose since back in the 90s. But the air is a killer, no doubt about it.

I would strongly advise all the Londoners on this thread to talk to their MPs and GLA and mayoral representatives and candidates now and in the run up to the next elections and press the case for a strong Ultra Low Emission Zone to be implemented this decade. This is not a case where we are powerless - the Congestion and LEZ charges have proved that these things are eminently doable if the GLA thinks it's a vote winner. We need to show that we care about the health risks more than the taxis fleets complaining about the cost or the classic car enthusiasts who don't want to sell their old Morgan.

Oh and the Paris thing is quick to implement, which is nice, but rarely does any good in the long run - in some cities it has led to the people who really want to drive 7 days a week buying a cheap heavily polluting old banger to drive on the other days.

VivaLeBeaver · 12/04/2014 10:17

I get black snot when I visit London, I always use the tube.

Sandthorn · 12/04/2014 10:18

Katese11, you seem to be working on the principle that less-polluted-than-Beijing is an acceptable standard. It isn't. And those UN statistics don't tell us anything about london specifically, or anything about short-term variability, they just say that on a 8-year-average, rich european cities were, on average, cleaner than poor eastern-Mediterranean ones. That doesn't preclude individual UK cities, or specific parts of those cities, or during specific weather conditions, having dangerous levels of pollution. They totally can, and that's what's been observed over the last few weeks.

Ooh, Brokenhearted... Was that a bit defensive? Seriously though, there are lots of things to like about living in a city (I do) but surely the pollution isn't one of them? And as for breathing in methane in the country, well environmental chemists say "the solution to pollution is dilution", and there's a hell of a lot of fresh air per cowpat in the country.

softlysoftly · 12/04/2014 10:50

brokenhearted I don't live in the country I just don't live in London. There are other cities available.

I actually like my London journeys (go once or twice a week) saying I dislike the black snot and increased asthma (tube theory is interesting as I always use it) doesn't mean I hate London!

Quinteszilla · 12/04/2014 11:19

My current perspective is from beyond the arctic circle (where I am visiting my dad, but a London dweller too).

I am old enough to remember Chernobyl. Even now we have to be careful not to eat too much reindeer as the lichen took a hit of radiation. There are increased levels of (thyroid) cancers in the population whose staple is reindeer. Trade in reindeer meats have also taken a hit.

Air pollution is not much of a problem up here, other than in spring, when the studded tires are rubbing on the asfalt, causing dust in the air. By law the studded winter tires must be changed between 1st and 12th May.

Some factories release fish related stuff into the sea, and it smells for a couple of days, no doubt harming the oceans.

Pollution should be tackled on all fronts.

However, my youngest son was diagnosed with Asthma when he was one. 2 years later we moved here, and he could stop using his inhalers within a month of staying in the north of Norway. In the three years we lived here my children did not need antibiotics even once. They had no respiratory problems at all. Not one tummy bug. They had 0 absence from school and nursery. Back in London they both need antibiotics every three months for respiratory illnesses, and they have had a series of stomach bugs.

From a health perspective, I know where I would rather live. A shame dh cant find work here.

coalscuttle · 12/04/2014 11:25

The sad thing is you read a thread like this, and then remember the thread a few weeks ago which went to over 1000 posts, someone moaning about some horse shit on the pavement outside her house. Is it any wonder humans are killing the planet? We will wipe ourselves out.

Pleasejustgo · 12/04/2014 11:38

Quinteszilla

I was reading an article about the fall out after the Japanese nuclear meltdown and the effects it was having on the oceans stateside. Interesting and very depressing.

I've been kidding myself that the oceans are the only relatively 'clean' places left.

The Channel 4 documentary the other night was pretty grim but nothing new.

I must admit over the last few years I've given in to complacency about the state of our environment but this really has been a sad reminder for me.

Decreased vitality is unnecessary but inevitable side effect at the very least and that pisses me right off but then I'm an idealist and think we should all be breathing clean air and drinking clean water. Hmmmm.

I have the rage about my breathing space being polluted right now. Usually I have the rage at having to share it with annoying people in too close a proximity. Shock

OP posts:
brokenhearted55a · 12/04/2014 11:47

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ForalltheSaints · 12/04/2014 11:51

London air quality may not be as bad as Beijing, but it is still a problem. Boris Johnson is more interested in photo opportunities and trying to get back into Parliament than actually doing anything meaningful. Let's hope whoever succeeds him as Mayor in 2016 actually has some grasp of detail and puts practical policies in place.

Quinteszilla · 12/04/2014 11:54

No doubt he will be followed by another prancing toffee peacock without substance.

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