'The purpose of Welfare is to help people into work

[AnnieMaybe]

This is what David Cameron just said at the end of the BBC benefit programme

Does he not know what welfare is? Has he forgotten the ethos of where it has evolved from

Maybe some kind of award respected by employers, bit like the DofE is for youngsters? A Certificate Of Contribution.

Most of our volunteers were SAHM and pensioners.

happy sorry didn't realise you are entitled to tax credits but just choose not to claim them.

I'm afraid that after my (Ex)H walked out on me and our two young children I felt I did need to apply. The roof over our heads was kind of important to me.

Im not entitled to tax credits linerunner, never said i was. You implied that our salary was huge and unobtainable for many and i simply replied that was not the case and there was nothing out of the ordinary with it. Like many families we just ensure our costs are covered by our salary.

Misspixie, however much you want to make out that every working person claims benefits the states show that not to be the case. Around five million out of thirty million. Not exactly the majority is it?

Peachy, all our school governors and helpers all work bar one retired person so its not the domain of the umemployed. I'd like to think volunteering itself brings its own rewards without a certificate etc.

Not five million happy. 1.9million claiming the maximum ctc. It is not showing. It is fact sharing. Saying otherwise doesn't make it any less true.

The amount of families claiming benefits must go up if child benefit is taken into account

Or doesn't it?

Rufus. The 1.9 million figure I quoted was in relation to people in work who claimed the maximum amount of ctc and also got wtc. I'm not sure about cb. Ordinarily I'd say yes but goal posts may have changed slightly this year with the introduction of the threshold.

Will have a look see if I can find anything.

We have services covered by the voluntary sector that frankly SHOULD be coming from the state, examples include

1. Lifeboats
2. Homestart
3. Sections of Womens Aid
4. Barnado's specialist services for child refugees, including victims of war rape and child soldiers.
5. Mountain rescue
6. Guide dogs
7. IPSEA - the special needs educational legal advisory service. (40% of kids with ASD wind up illegally excluded from school at some point - how do you think their parents can hold down jobs?)

I truly appreciate what the volunteers to these groups do. However the £3k per head state welfare payment that is given to the employer of each shelf stacker on workfare adds no value at all to society, except to ensure that some poor smuck is kicked out of their minimum wage job to make room.

Welfare it seems is for the wealthy and the corporate sector. It's time we as a society admitted that and had a real debate about whether "hard working families" are willing to continue to subsidise the lifestyle of our Lords and Master's, or whether we'd actually prefer a fairer society.

Make your mind up, happy.

Rufus Don't know if Page 5 helps here. I Predict it will go down slightly after this years threshold change - won't be evident for a short while yet though. Was looking for a table specifically work related but can't find one. I have either missed it or they have not felt the need to categorise it into subsections as it is was not yet means tested if that makes sense? www.ifs.org.uk/bns/bn13.pdf

Hear Hear bochead

"Make your mind up, happy."

With regards to what?

Your philosophical position, happy.

miss

Thanks for that, knew someone clever would be able to find some info

30 million!

Well it IS better than Eleventy Billion I suppose Rufus Thanks by the way. :)

Never changed my mind linerunner. If able to work, people should work rather than choose to claim from the state. Opting out of working, going part time or letting one parent stay home should only be able to be done if being funded by the families income not the state.

People dont have to have high earning jobs to afford a family, just live within their means. If their income doesnt stretch to what they want, then they either live with that or take on extra work etc if its something they truly want.

PIE chart on page 7 is rather telling. Especially the 42.3% of Pesky scrounging Pensioners being included in the total bill

missp Especially the 42.3% of Pesky scrounging Pensioners being included in the total bill

but 29% of that is due to their contributory pensions. a lot of the rest is to poor pensioners.

Unemployed 2.6%

And that's what most people mean by benefits

Shocking isn't it, as someone upthread said a lot of the "benefits" are more social payments like pensions

Youare A Percentage of People on JSA have also contributed to their state funded assistance too. I'm thinking around Redundancies etc.

Indeed Rufus and yes I do think it is wrong that Pensions are included in the Welfare Bill but I didn'[t write the rules.

*Personally DLA and state pensions or carers allowance need to be sepearted from the "benefit" umbrella. It should be classed as social support. There is no benefit to being disabled, caring for a disabled person or to being aged and vulnerable in today's society.

When people refer to benefits they are referring to JSA and such, and that by the nature of its name is to support people back into work*

exactly.
don't push us disabled and those with lifelong disabiliteies who need lifelong care into the same category.

miss pixie - I agree.

thanks. I did look for you but to no avail. Sorry for all the links folks but I just think facts are important to dispel such hatred against claimants as of late. The point of the Welfare System being a safety net is that it covers for all those eventualities that would not have otherwise crossed your mind. We have a high flying international businessman for a good friend, who sat very comfortably financially and was always jetting in and out of the UK on business. A freak accident changed his life overnight. He is now paralysed from the waist down and his wife is his full time carer. i know people are sick of hearing it but I do not care. All of us. Every single one of us is one payslip away from redundancy or one accident away from being dependant on state help for the rest of our lives no matter how much one has planned/saved.

Unless you're insured against such an event.