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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

being English to feel unconfortable when I see signs of English and British patriotism?

93 replies

knickernicker · 07/04/2014 13:59

Im not keen when I see the English flag. It was always the Union Jack when I was little. Seeing it puts me in mind of EDL.
I'm also not keen on the faux British patriotism/ Cath Kidstonyness/ cupcakery that's used to sell things e.g. by Boden.
I feel clearly English but I'd feel a fraud indulging in patriotic behaviour. I don't feel uncomfortable when I see it in other countries e.g. lots of houses in countryside in Sweden have their flag on a pole outside. That,seems natural to me.
Can I feel legitimately patriotic and should I?

OP posts:
Quckstart · 07/04/2014 14:21

I hate it when I see the Union Flag flown upside down (it's only a Jack if it's on a boat!). If you're patriotic enough to fly it, then at least learn which way up it goes.

I know what you mean about the George cross. Unfortunately both that and the Union Flag have been hijacked as symbols of the extreme right and for that reason I don't/wouldn't fly them for fear of being associated with them.

I still consider myself patriotic though.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 07/04/2014 14:26

I think it's a legitimately English thing to feel uncomfortable at overt displays of English patriotism. :) Or patriotism more generally for that matter. A little Swedish flag-waving may be acceptable but if seeing a bunch of Americans solemnly pledging allegiance to the Stars & Stripes with their hands over their hearts and moist eyes invokes the reaction 'ffs' in you, then you are probably English. Discretion is our creed. Showing off is a no-no.

FWIW I work overseas a lot and my prize possession is a red and white 'England' coffee mug that I sip from with subtle pride.

BlueSkySunnyDay · 07/04/2014 14:32

I dont think we are traditionally a flag flying nation though are we, unlike the Americans.

It has been kind of hijacked by the wrong kind of people in the same way that Burberry became "chav" - I guess if those of us who have a balanced attitude abandon it then that is all it will become a symbol of. I do see the English flag as being a bit of a "football" thing which is a shame

The whole Cath Kidston thing - I remember my gran having patterns like that when I was a child, I think it can be nice and traditional as long as you dont overdo it...and you can do it way cheaper than going down the CK avenue.

blueberryupsidedown · 07/04/2014 14:34

I'm Canadian and feel very embarrased when I see the flag on backpacks, car bumbers, hats, etc. Even more if you travel in Quebec, or in the French speaking regions of New Brunswick and other bilingual provinces, there's a lot of flags around, outside houses, showing which language the family speaks and/or which political party they support. It makes me Criiiiinge a lot more than the Union Flag, as it is associated with a subtle form of nationalism. It least the Union Flag is trendy. It looks nice on cushions, mugs, cupcakes, teddy bears.... Wink

BlueSkySunnyDay · 07/04/2014 14:34

Oh and I just Hmm every time I see Obama call America the "Greatest nation on earth" wtf (I will stop there before I upset our American friends) Grin

BlueSkySunnyDay · 07/04/2014 14:36

Strangely, thinking about it, I have no prejudices towards the Union flag Grin It is a design classic....lucky us.

mum11970 · 07/04/2014 14:36

We love all things patriotic in Wales. The Welsh flag and St David's flag is seen everywhere.

squoosh · 07/04/2014 14:39

I don't really understand flag waving outside of times of national celebration. You were born in a country that has a national flag. Woo! If you've just won the World Cup wave your flag, otherwise no.

ithaka · 07/04/2014 14:39

Yous should try being in Scotland at the moment... I think the saltire may be going the way of the george cross, sadly.

TheArticFunky · 07/04/2014 14:41

I don't mind the whole Cath Kidson look thats fine by me and I even own some of the tat myself. I also like the minis with the UJ flag on. That's where it stops though I don't feel particularly patriotic and it makes me uncomfortable when people make a big thing of patriotism. Not sure why really maybe because lots of patriotic people have a hidden agenda. There are lots of good things about this country I just don't feel the need to pat myself on the back for being 50% British.

WestieMamma · 07/04/2014 14:53

We have a Union Jack flying on our flag pole here in Sweden. (Nerd alert: The name was discussed in parliament a while back and the king officially consented to it being called the Union Jack on land as well as at sea)
Originally we had a St George's Cross but this caused great angst to the neighbours who can get their heads around the whole union thing.

WestieMamma · 07/04/2014 14:54
  • can't get their heads round ...
Fusedog · 07/04/2014 14:58

You should go to NI very strange I felt very unsafe to be honest

TrevaronGirl · 07/04/2014 14:59

knickernicker

Are you saying that you feel uncomfortable about flying the English flag in England or is it that you don't like it displayed when abroad?

blahblahblah2014 · 07/04/2014 15:01

Look what social conditioning has done to us as a nation - tradgic IMO

Wherever you are from, you should be proud to wave your national flag!

AgaPanthers · 07/04/2014 15:06

tradgic indeed. Hmm

AntiDistinctlyMinty · 07/04/2014 15:08

We have a Yorkshire flag on the playhouse in the garden and a pirate one. It's fairly common around here, though not the national flags. God help anyone who flew a red rose though - they'd be lynched Wink

Burren · 07/04/2014 15:12

Why did you feel unsafe, Fusedog? Flags demarcate traditional sectarian geographical divides in NI, but I'm always a bit baffled to see someone flying either a St George's cross or a Union flag on a flagpole in their garden in the middle of England. It's not as if there's any doubt about where you are, and it's not as if it's unlikely to find English people living in England, so then you wonder what someone putting it up on a flagpole outside their house is trying to say...?

Original poster
knickernicker · 07/04/2014 15:13

Trevarongirl-in England. Altho do feel a bit embarrassed abroad seeing whole English families in England football kits.

OP posts:
MaxPepsi · 07/04/2014 15:14

It's the Union Jack or Flag.

You don't have to be at sea to call it a Jack.

consideringadoption84 · 07/04/2014 15:16

Depends. I'm averagely patriotic and sometimes I love the flags. Around the time of the Olympics they were great.

But I don't really feel affected by EDL type stuff. Maybe if I did I'd be more wary.

squoosh · 07/04/2014 15:19

Some countries are a bit too flag wavy I think. The Danes are really fond of their flag, they're also a bit suspicious of immigrants.

Jux · 07/04/2014 15:20

It has never occurred to me to fly a flag or wave a flag. People round here fly the Devon flag if they want to fly anything.

FloozeyLoozey · 07/04/2014 15:21

Why do you feel embarrassed about England football kits?

thebody · 07/04/2014 15:24

We'll it depends doesn't it.

If you see your nationality and pride as Kath Kidson overpriced twee crisp then I don't blame you being embarrassed.

I see being British/English as being proud to be in a tolerant, democratic, diverse and compassionate society. Sure we get things wrong sometimes but to live in Britain is to have won life's lottery

We are bloody lucky to live here.

If you feel uncomfortable seeing a flag flown here but not in a random house in Sweden then that's just wierd.