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AIBU?

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Original poster

being English to feel unconfortable when I see signs of English and British patriotism?

93 replies

knickernicker · 07/04/2014 13:59

Im not keen when I see the English flag. It was always the Union Jack when I was little. Seeing it puts me in mind of EDL.
I'm also not keen on the faux British patriotism/ Cath Kidstonyness/ cupcakery that's used to sell things e.g. by Boden.
I feel clearly English but I'd feel a fraud indulging in patriotic behaviour. I don't feel uncomfortable when I see it in other countries e.g. lots of houses in countryside in Sweden have their flag on a pole outside. That,seems natural to me.
Can I feel legitimately patriotic and should I?

OP posts:
CogitoErgoSometimes · 07/04/2014 15:29

"I see being British/English as being proud to be in a tolerant, democratic, diverse and compassionate society. "

And part of that tolerance and diversity is not feeling the need to flaunt our natural superiority in fabric form... :) It's the dreaded 'showing off' that we hate so much.

EauRouge · 07/04/2014 15:35

The seriously racist usually have the white dragon flag because the St George's cross was brought over by the French (or some other non-English people, my history knowledge is a bit crap).

I don't think patriotism is a big thing in England anyway, is it? We don't celebrate St George's day and it's only been in the last few years that a few people have been questioning why we can't celebrate it. I don't think anyone has ever said we can't , we just don't. We have plenty of other traditions, like stripping off and getting sunburnt at the first sign of summer, and barbequeing on August Bank Holiday even if it's pissing it down.

thebody · 07/04/2014 15:38

Eau so true, a few weekends ago it was mildly warm and the amount of men in shorts out and about was funny.

We could smell the bbqs too with rain steadily falling, Now that is the essence of Britain.

We put the flags our for the sports though, cricket, rugby and footie, why not it's fun.

thebody · 07/04/2014 15:40

cogito x post. Grin

almondcake · 07/04/2014 15:43

I don't think all the cup cakery is faux patriotism. It is what some people like about being English. It can all go a bit too far (like anything) and become sickening, but a nice floral print is one of the things I like about being English. It actually is quite important culturally (the arts and crafts movement and all that).

There are numerous other countries that have tolerance and diversity and all that, but only England has William Morris and Liberty print.

AutumnStar · 07/04/2014 15:47

I think this is a really interesting thread, OP.

I can't bear seeing the union flag or the St George cross. Both make me immediately think of the BNP/EDL. Which in turn makes me furious because they've ruined it.

I'd be highly suspicious of anyone flying a flag outside their house, to be honest. As Cogito said, it doesn't feel like a very 'British' thing to do.

I don't really get patriotism as a concept, either. thebody is right in that we've won the life lottery to live in Britain. I wouldn't want to live anywhere else for any great period of time. But I love the great things about other countries too. I don't get why you'd shout about how much you love your own country.

But I don't get the need to display 'THIS IS WHAT I THINK' about everything to all and sundry. Not that everyone does that, obviously.

KissesBreakingWave · 07/04/2014 16:04

Flag-waving nationalist boosterism (often confused with patriotism by the ignorant) is the business of other, and by definition lesser, nations than dear old blighty.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 07/04/2014 16:17

Flag-waving (outside of sporting tournaments, royal events or regattas) is an expression of national insecurity.... discuss.

NigellasDealer · 07/04/2014 16:22

personally I like the union flag as a design icon but sadly associate the flag of St George with the EDL and similar.
would not wave either unless i was doing it really really ironically

Original poster
knickernicker · 07/04/2014 16:36

DD had to make a St George flag at nursery for St Georges day. In the 70s when I was small, I wasn't even aware of anything other than the full Union Jack. I remember the Silver Jubilee and Union Jacks everywhere.

OP posts:
Jux · 07/04/2014 16:42

We were taught about the flag which make up the Union Jack, and it was made very clear that St George wasn't ever a real person while the others were. Catholic school, so saints were important.

IdkickJilliansAss · 07/04/2014 16:44

I had a umbrella with union jacks on it and got accoster by two teenagers for being 'racist'

squoosh · 07/04/2014 16:46

Were you shouting vile abuse whilst beating a person of another race with the aforementioned umbrella IdkickJilliansAss?

IdkickJilliansAss · 07/04/2014 16:47

Grin no just walking to the shops!

almondcake · 07/04/2014 16:49

The Catholic church does teach that Saint George was a real person; he is one of the most important Catholic saints!

I didn't know anybody thought he wasn't a historical figure.

chrome100 · 07/04/2014 16:49

I am English but the fact never really crosses my mind. I think flags are rather pointless, really. Why on earth should I be proud of where I was born? It has nothing to do with me and is just random chance.

5feralloinfruits · 07/04/2014 16:50

I just dont see the point of being patriotic,its not something to be proud of,were all born where were born through chance,we didnt earn a place the country we were born in.

NigellasDealer · 07/04/2014 16:51

totally agree chrome it is pure chance - proud to be this and proud to be that is for fuckwits.
also, when you think about it, being English is kind of embarrassing.....what with the colonial history and all.

IdkickJilliansAss · 07/04/2014 16:51

I feel lucky but not proud, i'm proud of my village because of the community and the way people look out for one and other

almondcake · 07/04/2014 16:52

Surely being proud of, and loving your country, is like loving your parents and siblings. It is all random chance that I have these particular parents and siblings, but I love them and am proud of them because they are my siblings.

MrsBW · 07/04/2014 16:53

It's the Union Jack or Flag.

You don't have to be at sea to call it a Jack.

^ this

Union Flag vs Union Jack

I hate the way the St George's Cross has been commandeered by the EDF - but I still don't mind it being flown in the same was I don't mind seeing a Scottish Saltire or Welsh Flag flown. I certainly wouldn't leap to a conclusion that the person/people flying a St George's cross was a racist.

thebody · 07/04/2014 16:59

I think the fact that we don't as a nation fly the flagis probably an ingrained consciousness that we know we are great so don't feel the need to flag wave.

It's a kind of a superiority in itself really.

NigellasDealer · 07/04/2014 17:00

I certainly wouldn't leap to a conclusion that the person/people flying a St George's cross was a racist
after living on a brighton council estate, i am afraid that i would

ComposHat · 07/04/2014 17:02

I was born in England, but live in Scotland and am quite used to seeing Saltaires flying everywhere and I don't associate that with extreme nationalism in the same way as I do with displays of St George's Cross. Parading the St George's cross has unpleasant far right connotations for me.

I would say that given England's (overly) dominant position in the Union that the English feel less need to assert or even consider their identity, leaving a trenchant expression of nationality to proper full on racist nutters. In much the same way that you don't really think about your racial or sexual identity and how it shapes/limits your role in society if you live in a society which is predicated on the 'norm' and dominance of white heterosexuals.

Someone banging on about 'white rights' - I'd think racist

How proud they are of their straight children - I'd think homophobe.

Ostentatious display of St George's Flag, aggressively asserting their Englishness - I'd think bigot.

whomadeyougod · 07/04/2014 17:11

Seeing it puts me in mind of EDL

thats says more about you than the person displaying the flag .