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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Question about gender change

999 replies

lougle · 06/04/2014 20:48

If someone is making a transition to one gender from another, what does their sexuality relate to - their original gender, or their new one?

For instance, if a man is transitioning to become a woman, and is attracted to women, would that make them 'straight' or 'gay'?

If a woman is transitioning to become a man, and is attracted to women, would he then be 'straight' or 'gay'?

I'm likely to have to explain 'gender change' to my children, but it occurred to me that I really don't understand the 'gender' part of it at all.

I understand the physical processes and the medical timeline, etc. (ie. live as new gender for x period, medication, initial reassignment surgery, final reassignment surgery), but I don't understand how someone who has had gender reassignment would identify their sexuality.

I hope I haven't offended anyone - I may not have used the right terminology and may have been clumsy in the way I've asked the question.

OP posts:

QueenStromba · 14/04/2014 10:16

Nursey you really aren't helping the trans cause. You are also belittling the female experience by saying that people who have a penis can be women really.

NurseyWursey · 14/04/2014 10:19

Yes I do think they can be women. Of course they can. Gender and sex are different. Think yourself lucky Queen you were born with what feels right. Others aren't so lucky.

QueenStromba · 14/04/2014 10:21

Actually I'd much rather be a man but I realise that I can't be a man so I just get on with life as a woman.

Grennie · 14/04/2014 10:22

I know Trans people who have a penis who get changed in a disabled or a family changing room set aside for their use while they change. There is space for everyone to compromise.

HarderToKidnap · 14/04/2014 10:22

I find that viewpoint incongruent.

You seem to be saying that having a penis defines you as a man, and that if you're not a man then you don't have to get changed in a roomful of penises. But transwomen who do have a penis aren't men even though they have a penis, and therefore need to get changed in a roomful of women, which doesn't tally with the above.

Take gender identity out of it. Places segregated by genitalia are not comments on gender identity. That "roomful of men" could be transwomen, transmen, men, intersex people who all happen to have dicks. So they're in the dick room. I don't see how on the one hand having a dick is so defining that it makes you a man and therefore only fit for the men's changing rooms on one hand, but not so defining that other people with dicks absolutely need to use the vulva changing room.

QueenStromba · 14/04/2014 10:24

And I've always felt like I was missing a penis even before I knew what a penis was. I'm still a woman and will always be a woman.

lollerskates · 14/04/2014 10:31

And I have no idea what "feeling like a woman" means or entails. I've been female since birth and I have no idea what "feeling like a woman" means. I know what "being treated like a woman" feels like and it's shit. As someone once said, my inside doesn't match my outside either: on the outside I'm a woman, but on the inside I'm a person.

NurseyWursey · 14/04/2014 10:34

I suppose unless you've had someone cry to you and want to hurt themselves because they say they were born the wrong sex it has an impact. I can't be as flippant as you all can.

almondcakes · 14/04/2014 10:34

Nursey, the main reason I don't get undressed in the male changing room or use the men's toilets is because it is their private space and it would make many of them, particularly boys going through puberty, really uncomfortable.

And my sex does not match my gender. Gender to me personally is just a lot of pointless rules.

QueenStromba · 14/04/2014 10:35

The only transwoman who's been on this thread doesn't even know what it feels like to be a woman. How are us silly women supposed to know what it feels like to be a woman when a man doesn't even know what it feels like to be a woman?

NurseyWursey · 14/04/2014 10:36

Almond but what if you looked male all over except your genitals?

Does one have to say, sorry guys here's my vulva I'm a woman really.

Or could you be discreet like any other person is and get changed without flashing your genitals?

almondcakes · 14/04/2014 10:37

Nursey, I am not flippant about anyone's feelings, whether they have cried or not. Someone having feelings doesn't magic everyone else's away.

QueenStromba · 14/04/2014 10:38

If it helps you Nursey, I'm really upset that I'm a woman. I've wanted to die many times because I'm a woman.

NurseyWursey · 14/04/2014 10:39

Because you're a woman queen because of the injustice we face or because you feel you're truly a man?

Because there's a difference

almondcakes · 14/04/2014 10:39

How do you get showered in a communal shower without showing your genitals?

NurseyWursey · 14/04/2014 10:40

I've never been anywhere that only has communal showers so I don't know.

I'm more talking about getting changed, they can shower at home.

BeerTricksPotter · 14/04/2014 10:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

QueenStromba · 14/04/2014 10:41

Both. I'm upset because I've been raped because I'm a woman and I also feel that I should have a penis.

HarderToKidnap · 14/04/2014 10:43

Lots of people flash their genitals when changing. They feel comfy to do a quick flash if necessary because they are in a room full of people with the same genitals.

In reality of course, if someone quite far thought the transition process, who passes reasonably well as the sex they have transitioned to, comes in and discreetly changes without flashing... Then no one will know, or care, and there are no issues.

Someone not far down the road and indiscreetly changing...no. That feels unsafe to me. I would invoke dick law and if they were still be-dicked, off to the dick room.

QueenStromba · 14/04/2014 10:44

But I know that it's fucking stupid to think that I could have a penis/be a man so I've gotten over it. So yeah, I'm more upset about having been raped because I've got a vagina.

NurseyWursey · 14/04/2014 10:46

Someone not far down the road and indiscreetly changing...no. That feels unsafe to me. I would invoke dick law and if they were still be-dicked, off to the dick room
Don't get me wrong, I do NOT think a trans person should be allowed to go in and start waving their willy around, I don't think identifying as a female could ever excuse that. That's wrong and disrespectful in any scenario let alone the female facilities.

But someone who is discreet, I don't see a problem with.

QueenStromba · 14/04/2014 10:47

Although come to think of it, if I had a penis I wouldn't have been raped so maybe I am upset because I don't have a penis.

almondcakes · 14/04/2014 10:48

If I am in a communal shower at a sports centre, I haven't been swimming. People take their sports clothes off and get in naked.

NurseyWursey · 14/04/2014 10:51

But I know that it's fucking stupid to think that I could have a penis/be a man so I've gotten over it. So yeah, I'm more upset about having been raped because I've got a vagina

Some people don't get over it though they can't. Expecting someone to get over the fact they're trapped in a body they don't identify with would be wrong, so I would support someone who feels the need to do what feels right for them. It's a hard grueling process that people don't undertake lightly, it takes commitment.

And I'm sorry that happened to you. And I'm sorry you felt you had to 'get over' being a woman.

QueenStromba · 14/04/2014 10:55

So men's experiences are more valid than mine because penises can be moulded into vaginas?

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